Topic
Best raid tank class?
Please stop trolling. You aren't funny. You never have been. You're just too obvious. |
|
that's a matter of preference. AMZ negates a "burst" spell in the raid, it's not about the amount it absorb, it's how the 75% cheese aoe raid dmg mechanics. It's a very good raid cd. While RC is more about "raid is taking a lot of dmg for whatever reason, lets give everyone more hp". It doesn't reduce dmg taken .. it increases people's hp so that they don't die for whatever reason. Those are very different things. For example, Monk healers have Revival, but that's a huge aoe heal on the raid, it's not the same of say, spirit link totem. Some raid cds are better at handling aoe instant raid dmg, some at dealing with constant aoe raid dmg, etc etc . In this sense, revival is more of a "oh !@#$" raid-wide button than a proper defensive raid cd. Which is my point. DKs are on par with warriors in terms of "utility". Just like monks, and paladins and druids .. each on their own way. Warriors have R. Cry? Monks put out some obscene amount of raid healing via guards, and chi burst/wave. Some fights R.C is better to handle a intense raid burst, so that people don't die? sure .. but other than that, Guard statue is superior any day. We hardly need more than 1 RC (if we need) per boss. There's very little gain in having multiple RCs. And again, it's about specs. Only a brm can provide guard statue and avert harm. You can't simply put another monk and have those. While a warrior you can simply have it as dps. In this sense, I rather have a monk tank + warrior dps than warrior dps + tank. Imo is about versatility. The more different tools your raid have at your disposal, the better. Spirit Link totem is, imo, one of the best raid wide defensive cds ... but there's no good in stacking 2-3 resto shamans just because of that. Many fights wont even benefit from them. Pretty sure you're just biased here, there's literally nothing I can't handle on my Warrior just as well as any good BrM or DK, including magical burst damage. it's the other way around. I play a monk (and played a DK) because I think those are the best tanks. Not that I think those are the best tanks because I play them. I'm not saying the other tanks are bad, currently all tanks are able to tank every fight. But I played all of them and I know exactly how their mechanics work, and we do have a warrior/pally tanks available on our core. But unless the fight requires me to heal, we never, ever, chose them instead of me to tank. Simply because my toolkit works best for our group. People know the shenanigans I can pull, how my toolkit can cheese some mechanics etc. For example: Can our paladin tank H vizier? sure .. but the fact that I can double roll between platforms, use transcendence to quick move the boss (which is extremelly important on this fight on p2), guard to negate every exale, elusive brew between his mechanics, stagger giving me a perma ~50% reduction for every single mechanic in the fight, being able to keep myself and 4 dpsers without a healer .. keeping myself without a healer on p2 .. That puts our pally tank on the pocket =p is he a bad tank for that fight? surely not. Those things are not required things to beat the boss, but they sure as hell give us an edge. Which is my point, can you bring any tank and he'll get the job done? yes. But I'd rather have a monk or dk + X, if I can choose. and you can't seriously compare battle healer with BrM heals .. from our last H elegon kill yesterday which is our most recent log (for some reason my log stopped on our H Vizier attempts). amount that healed others: - monk: 7.222.240 - paladin: 2.573.968 every try on h vizier we have logged, I did between twice or almost 3 times his healing on the raid. It's just a whole other league =p |
|
|
Edited by Leeflow on 11/26/12 9:29 AM (PST)
10% is really crap. And saying "multiple" just doesn't cut .. because under that assumption, 2 spirit link totens will be better than 2 banners, or 2 priest bubbles .. etc etc even BrM avert harm is less crap than this .. and it's REALLY crap. It's very rare for me to use it. and my point is that no cd atm is "mandatory". There's not an advantage like paladins had in firelands where they were the only one with a descent raid cds. They are all watered down now, and non-healers versions of raid cds are really "okaish" to the point that it doesn't matter which one you have, because they will be usefull, but not gamebreaking. So it doesn't really matter which one you bring. HLeap/Charge, demo shout+insane barrier for each exhale, block for all of his melee, and I take zero damage during F&V with barrier. warriors can deal with it better than paladins, that's for sure. And plz, leg sweep .. clash. My point is that monks (and to a lesser extent, warrior) have a more diverse toolkit now than other tanks. In terms of simply "being able to tank fights", everyone is on par, but when you start to analize the small mechanics and perks of each tank, there are minor advantages/disadvantages. But if I had to choose between bringing a monk or a warrior, my personal choice would be a monk, hands down. Simply because they can do everything the warrior can, and still bring a lot of raid healing to the table. Yes, I think that raid healing is superior to RC in 10 mans. Specially when any dps warrior can bring said RC, but no other monk can bring guard statue + AH. in my opinion those 4 tanks are like this (as usual I don't talk about druids =D) - monks: high survivability, extremelly high raid healing, high mobility, versatile to handle magic, absorb or physical mechanics on the fly. - DK: very high survivability, okaish raid utility with BRs + AMZ, low mobility, versatile to handle magic, absorb or physical mechanics on the fly. - Warriors: high survivability, okaish raid utility with RC + banners, high mobility, versatile to handle magic, absorb or physical mechanics on the fly. - Paladins: high survivability, descent raid utility with BoPs and other mechanics, descent raid healing low mobility, limited to handle different mechanics, since they rely too much on long CDs. They all have pros and cons. In the end it's really about the player, since the differences are very marginal. If you ask me, I'd rather have monk + warrior in our group than monk + pally. Simply because I like that combo more than the others. My top picks atm would be: 1st. monk + warrior 2nd. monk + pally 3rd. DK + warrior 4th. DK + pally 5th. DK + monk 6th. warrior + pally no, I'd never pick a druid as a tank in any situation if I could, specially in 10 mans =) And no, I don't think sharing tier is a problem .. and tanks don't get tier before dpsers anyway. |
|
Why would you take a puny humanoid shield toting weakling when you could have a motherf-cking BEAR
|
|
Even though pandas aren't really bears, I'm still a mother!@#$ing bear. |
|
If a DK knows how to play his class... (so much more then the Ds spam .. that half theses forums think.. :// ))
He is a candy cane of lolipop if played well ;P. But it is an awareness game as a DK. |
|
|
The problem of bears if that they don't have a "niche". Name one fight where you said "man I wished we had a bear to tank this".
But I remember a dozen times where I thought, "a monk/dk/paladin/warrior would be awesome for this fight". They are perfectly fine for 25 mans .. And they can tank 10 mans just fine, I just think they are boring and don't bring anything interesting to the group that any other tank can't do better. Druids on 10 man? moonkin or resto. Those specs of druids are perfect for 10 mans. Again, it's my personal opinion, it's not a law or anything. Whats wrong with bears? Don't have one but that ruins my motivation to level one... umm ... no it isn't. Clash has 3 bugs, granted: - it doesn't work on mobs imune to "grip" mechanics (which happens with deathgrip as well). - mobs performing another scripted action ... if the mob is doing something special, like sleeping or something, he doesn't get pulled and you land your charge midway. - it doesnt work well when you are jumping/falling. those are bugs, obviously .. are should be fixed, but saying "it simply doesn't work" is ridiculous. I use it all the time with the desired result (aka stunning the group). |
I tank on several different classes and in my opinion, DKs and Druids are an optimal combination in most raids currently. Both are fairly stout, and get few complaints from compitent healers, while pulling competitive DPS. This combined with thier awesome AoE abilites make them pretty relevent together. I am sure other Tank classes and combos are just as good, as it is generally more the player than the toon, but, friends that heal seem to like the DK/Drood combo a bit more than the other Tank classes out there. |
Have you never looked at the glyph of the battle healer, sends heals to the 3 lowest raid members... |
|
|
....
|
|
I believe Dks and druids are still considered the best overall tanks for 2 reasons.
1) The healing they can do to themselves is simply insane, on elegon I've done well over 20k hps with FR, granted its buffed by the aura, but still 20k hps is just insane. Same goes with Dks, our dk tank will heal himself for 12-15k hps on any fight with heavy sustained tank damage. 2) Just the overall damage mitigation, druids obviously have the highest EH pools atm thanks to their mastery, currently I'm reforged into mastery (though crit is probably better but because I also dps single tank fights i go mastery) and run somehwhere close to 100k armor, which is about 68% physical damage reduction. Blood dks have the largest HP pool and their blood shield on fights like will can be stacked to very high numbers while they aren't taking a lot of damage, and on progression fights with high tank damage purgatory is just a god like talent. Granted pallys and warriors aren't terrible, they are both actually pretty good, its simply that if your looking for the best dks/druids are slightly better. Pallys can however do a massive amount of healing if they know what they are doing. Monks in general though are probably the worst, with no armor increase, and the fact that stagger until purifing brew doesn't actually prevent any damage is a poor design mechanic and in all likelihood as progression continues and bosses hit harder at some point they are going to need a mechanic change. |
|
I've said it before, and the next time this topic comes up I may say it again. DKs are the best tanks. Why? Because we get to use a big two handers sword/axe/or if no other choice a lame mace. Yes monks and bears use 2 handed staves. But as we all know swords > staves. Therefore, by my flawless logic, DKs are the best tanks.
|
|
Edited by Dkaye on 11/27/12 11:14 AM (PST)
overall for this tier it's dk/monk imo.
I see alot of monks are squishy stuff but they seem pretty sturdy to me if you are at least haflway decent, do good dps, and bring great utility blood is pretty sturdy, does good dps - has great survivability- however our raid utilty could use a bit of love. I'd kill to at least bring the equivalent of paw/might or even a sunder. |
|
Well, i think that bears are going to be a lot better in 5.1, if the new passive Thoot and Claw:
http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=135288 Reduces a noticeable amount of damage when we are off tanking. |
