Landfall = Forced PvP on PvE Realms?

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90 Tauren Druid
17795


Or maybe just maybe players can get a little self awareness and be careful in what they attack? No that is crazy. Crying on the forums is definitely easier.


Right. Because there's no such thing as a dooshbag that likes to sit flagged in an area where PVE players are questing right? That never happens. Just like PVP flagged players NEVER sit on an NPC while flagged, right?

Thrall quest chain says hi, and delivers a slap to the crap filled lump three feet above your backside. ;)

Pay attention and don't target them? Every class has single target abilities that don't hit anything else.
86 Gnome Mage
13390
I will PvP on my terms only, never on an opponent's terms. I will select the stage, I will control the flow of the skirmish. Potential opponents on PvE realms trying to circumvent PvP flag mechanics need to be a reportable option much like spammers.

I am not opposed to PvP, but I am opposed to weaselly PvP.
37 Gnome Priest
2105
11/28/2012 02:53 PMPosted by Douevenliftx


Um, no.


umm yeah, Shutup scrubs, go back to playing rp in vent and trying to hook up with them girlz in ur raid group.


Wow, you must be super good at this game. Can you give us all some pointers?

/sits down to listen in awe
90 Human Warlock
13015

THey may not flag you, but when other people of the opposing faction intentionally flag cause it's shared questing areas, with alot of active combat ongoing, to get you flagged because the tab-targetting/auto-targetting functions in the game aren't the most robust, and flag you because of that, it isn't your choice.


Stop tab targeting and mindlessly attacking? Or is that solution too obvious.

If this is the problem how is it any different than every other area that is crowded by both factions? If it is the guards attacking that is one thing that probably should be fixed but if it is players tab targeting on accident that isn't something that needs fixing, at least on blizzards end.


Just a bit disengenuous.

Let's take the quests that are inside the cave for example. The mobs are fairly dense in population which makes pulling only one damn near impossible (the mogu mobs are linked to each other so there's two right there). Now then, I'm pertinere forced to not use one of my own talents (Harvest Life) because I don't get to choose how many targets it hits, it doesn't 'only' include targets I'm actively attacking it hits every single possible mob in its "range" including critters. Now then, let's add a flagged Hordey in and I have to change my whole style of play just to prevent from being flagged. Has nothing to with mindlessly tab targetting.

Now let's say we have a flagged toon stealthed. Now let's say I use my felgaurd to felstorm some mobs, all he has to do is walk near, bam, mission accomplished. The fact that you are almost prevented from using AOE really affects gameplay. Now what if a flagged toon pulls a bunch of mobs and starts running through the cave, but not far enough that the mobs leash, gets close to me and drops into stealth or aggro drops, then by proximity they start attacking me or my minion who may have already been engaged. Now I'm almost required to AOE to bring all these mobs down and doing so opens me up to being flagged. Not using any AOE A: puts me at risk of dying due to too many mobs... B: increases the time needed to complete the quests I'm trying to do in the first place in a timely manner.

Bottom line is in the highly populated areas for PVE mobs, like many places in Dread Wastes just as an example. it's quite easy for anyone who wants to grief players to 'accidentally' get people to flag. The new quest-area hub is highly populated with stationary as well as patrolling mobs which means you already have to be careful about pulling mobs intended or unintended and it's way easy for some classes at least to get another class flagged.

OP has a legit beef and I agree with him/her. PVP is a disgrace at present and World PVP is almost never balanced as it is, so the situation is only exacerbated.
11/27/2012 01:31 PMPosted by Izki
I say they haven't done enough to encourage PvP. There should be more rewards for killing flagged opponents in this new area if they truly want a war.


On a PvP server, they can encourage it all they want. On the PvE servers I choose to play on, I'd love for world PvP to become nonexistent.


Agree. Those of us that rolled PvE servers should not be felt forced into PvP. This is why we rolled PvE because many of us are not interested in it. World PvP is for PvP servers period.
90 Draenei Hunter
0
Thanks for everyone's feedback on this issue. These quests are supposed to encourage PvP, but remain PvE friendly, so the more information we can gather regarding what might still be flagging players is helpful. The following hotfixes have already been implemented:

  • Players are no longer flagged for PvP combat when engaging Lieutenant Ethan Jacobson.
  • Players are no longer flagged for PvP combat when engaging Chief Engineer Cogswrench.
  • Getting in combat with NPCs in Domination Point will no longer cause guards to assist them.
  • Removed Kor’kron Elite near a quest objective.

Obviously, some of you still seem to be getting flagged inappropriately. If you are still being flagged incorrectly, we'd like to address it.

It will help us investigate if those of you still experiencing issues could please let us know what exactly you were doing when you were flagged.


We don't need encouragement to pvp, we don't want to pvp, that is why we roll on pve servers. This is almost as bad as the for the children achievement that is keeping me from my violet proto drake. Another instance of forced pvp to get a non pvp related reward.

A bunch of folk also share my dismay about the bigger scope of how pvp effects and most often ruins pve via nerfs that the pvp community CRY QQ AND MOAN about just as they say we do when we have legitimate concerns. See BM Hunters Fire Mages and Warriors nerfs recently. I've stated time and time again, just because I have a differing opinion than you, I'm not whining, I'm trying to explain what I feel should be different. The pvp community deserves balance the same as the pve community does, but you can't strike that balance easily when what is best for one is clearly in conflict with the other. The best recommendation would be to completely separate pvp from pve on pve realms and within the game in general. But I know that is a radical notion.

I originally leveled on a pvp server, I moved all my toons to a pve realm because that's where my irl firends were playing. I have gotten used to the way a pve environment is and do not wish to be forced, suggested, poked, prodded or otherwise into pvp situations again.
90 Dwarf Priest
15890
Thanks for everyone's feedback on this issue. These quests are supposed to encourage PvP, but remain PvE friendly, so the more information we can gather regarding what might still be flagging players is helpful. The following hotfixes have already been implemented:

  • Players are no longer flagged for PvP combat when engaging Lieutenant Ethan Jacobson.
  • Players are no longer flagged for PvP combat when engaging Chief Engineer Cogswrench.
  • Getting in combat with NPCs in Domination Point will no longer cause guards to assist them.
  • Removed Kor’kron Elite near a quest objective.

Obviously, some of you still seem to be getting flagged inappropriately. If you are still being flagged incorrectly, we'd like to address it.

It will help us investigate if those of you still experiencing issues could please let us know what exactly you were doing when you were flagged.


Being flagged by flag tricking.

Sitting on or near quest objectives attempting to get people to mistakenly flag.


that has happened for a long time. Heck a guildie back in cata who was has herbalism had one of the seeds that turned you into an herb. He used those while flagged and camped on an herb for unsuspecting or someone to click on him. This was a pve server too
90 Human Paladin
4430
this is such a dumb thread. I am a Pvp'er and i must do pve to be able to pvp, so why should it be any different for Pve'er.
I hate leveling and it takes something like 40hrs to level each xpac. please remove leveling for pvp'er. we hate it and its not fair. /cry . thats how dumb this thread is.
90 Gnome Mage
12810
can't you just bring back the option to not be able to target anyone that's pvp flagged with an ability, while you have that option selected? That was a good thing that was just removed for some unstated reason. It was perfect for these types of situations. Everyone praised the feature when it came out, and for some reason it's gone...
90 Night Elf Druid
5485
11/28/2012 12:43 PMPosted by Daxxarri
It will help us investigate if those of you still experiencing issues could please let us know what exactly you were doing when you were flagged.


ISTM that there isn't enough marking the border between "horde base where you are supposed to go kill npcs and do your quests" and "horde base where the uberguards will kill you in 10 seconds while also force-flagging you instantly whether you fight them or not". They really need enough separation so that people rarely cross the line by accident. Maybe that will be less of a problem as people get used to the content, though.

Also, if you are not flagged and use an aoe or bouncing ability, flagged players and npcs shouldn't be eligible to be hit by it. This would greatly reduce the "flag and sit next to quest mob" problem. Some specs have aoe abilities that are useful even against one target and don't have a specifically single target alternative (thrash and keg smash, for example) or have abilities that can bounce to unexpected targets (e.g. chi wave). They shouldn't be forced to give up useful abilities to avoid being unintentionally flagged.

Ideally, IMO, the phrase "unintentionally flagged" shouldn't exist at all. In fact, I'd suggest going even further and disallowing non-flagged players from casting on a flagged pc/npc AT ALL (even as primary target) and instead giving them a "You must flag for PvP to do that" error message if they try. (And, of course, also removing guards' ability to flag you even if you aren't fighting back -- what is that for anyway?) It only takes a second to flag, but it takes much longer to corpserun because you flagged by accident.

Autoflagging should be reserved for designated PvP zones (on some servers that's almost the whole world, but people who roll on those servers can be assumed to like it that way).
90 Human Paladin
7305
These quests are supposed to encourage PvP, but remain PvE friendly,


Blizzard.

You can encourage PVP through a lot of ways. Rewards, etc.

You can also discourage PVP through allowing PVE players to suffer from unintended ganking, griefing, and being flagged through trickery. Nothing turns a player away from an aspect of a game more than being forced into it. Maybe not directly by you, but by other players trick flagging them.

If you're serious about encouraging PVP, give more carrots (rewards) and remove the stick (trick flagging).
Edited by Hatsune on 11/28/2012 4:42 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Mage
5510
Ugh, the responses in this thread really give PvPers a bad image.
90 Blood Elf Warlock
9710
Thanks for everyone's feedback on this issue. These quests are supposed to encourage PvP, but remain PvE friendly, so the more information we can gather regarding what might still be flagging players is helpful. The following hotfixes have already been implemented:

  • Players are no longer flagged for PvP combat when engaging Lieutenant Ethan Jacobson.
  • Players are no longer flagged for PvP combat when engaging Chief Engineer Cogswrench.
  • Getting in combat with NPCs in Domination Point will no longer cause guards to assist them.
  • Removed Kor’kron Elite near a quest objective.

Obviously, some of you still seem to be getting flagged inappropriately. If you are still being flagged incorrectly, we'd like to address it.

It will help us investigate if those of you still experiencing issues could please let us know what exactly you were doing when you were flagged.


so... they can kill rares while we sit idle & watch oh come on give factions a chance to pvp.. not sit & watch a group kill a Rare mob that was sopost to be made pvp. you ruined a perfectly good zone you guys designed to be PVP which now is 99.99% PVE other 3 caping 3 places big whoop on your guys big fail of a PVP patch or Area. im a big pver but i found it nice for once to see old school PVP like it once was in vanilla now you just turned it into a carebear fast no one flags or gets flaged so move on also you should maybe fix the exploiters using the Above Caputure Bug allowing them to sit up top in the building to cap the tower... real genious since you can only fly up & they can knock you straight off as you land in
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