Symbiosis - fix it or trash it!

100 Night Elf Druid
9745
12/04/2012 12:01 PMPosted by Garai
I really don't like it giving non-druid prot specs another defensive cd again, it has removed all choice from myself as to who I give it to.


The problem with that is those abilities cost resources that that tank might not want to spend.

Personally, as a tank I like DK, (non-resto) Shaman, Paladin, or Monk. As Feral I like Priest, DK, (some fights) and Warrior. (For added burst during hero/BerserkNV) Rogue and Warlock I find myself never using the abilities just out of habit.

As far as what other classes get from it? I don't generally put that into consideration. Most classes don't particularly care about what they get from Symbiosis, or refuse to play around with them. (I've TOLD my GM to try wrathspam on his retadin to see what it would do, but he refuses. Ah well.)
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91 Troll Druid
13675
12/04/2012 12:09 AMPosted by Turmoyl
I suggest the OP looks up the definition of Symbiosis


If you can't read I already did in my first post. So yeah.

I guess the biggest problem is that I mainly play guardian and I have only seen a very few things beneficial to tanks. Spinny bones, consecration and even lightning shield can be pretty good - but that's about it and if you don't have the right kind of player in your group you might not get it.

Really I think they need to just tweak it a smidge and make it slightly more useful. I totally believe that is possible w/o making it far too OP.
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100 Tauren Druid
10335
Honestly; Scrap Symbiosis.

It's a terrible ability and the only way to fix it is to make it powerful.

Making it powerful means that a Druid becomes necessary to bringing to a raid, something blizzard is absolutely against (feeling required to bring a certain class...which is infuriating because I'm thinking of you Blood DK's...)
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91 Troll Druid
13675
Yep, see? Nonsensical. Why would you stop swinging your weapon to cast Wrath? Unless there's a mechanic where you'd have to run out of melee range for a significant amount of time - and the only way to SORT OF make up for your DPS loss would be to spam Wrath over and over - there's no utility to it and I don't normally find too many encounters where the melee has to stop hitting things with their weapons and run away for 20-30-40 seconds at a time.

This ability just seems far too situational...and certain situational, which makes it even worse and more limited.

I'd take an execute ability for DPS/tank specs over this garbage right now...or something truly new and useful for healers.
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96 Worgen Druid
4930
I suggest the OP looks up the definition of Symbiosis

If you can't read I already did in my first post. So yeah.


Symbiosis means BOTH parties benefit. Mutualism.


You missed a spot.

Commensalism - One benefits, one is neither harmed nor helped.
Edited by Rextan on 12/5/2012 12:36 PM PST
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90 Troll Druid
8340
Feint as a bear tank useless?? are you KIDDING ME? bears no longer have their 6% static magic mitigation we used to get from perseverance from what ive seen. (at least i havent seen it in any way yet since my return) anyway. being able to pop feint for a hige magic damage reduction is an amazing cooldown for bears. and it's VERY viable. Sure 9/10 times DK/monk is the better choice. but feint has plenty of uses
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
6605
From a PvP perspective I find most of the spells I get to be fairly beneficial. From a PvE perspective yeah a lot are useless for ME but a buff to another group member. I guess I see it as benefiting one group member benefits the group, whether it buffs me or not.
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100 Troll Druid
15365
In a 5man why would I want feint AS A TANK?! Also - warlock portals? I don't even know the last time I saw a lock drop a portal in a 5man.
Symbiosis isn't going to have strong value where utility moves don't have strong value.
Edited by Melenkor on 12/6/2012 8:08 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
10955
12/05/2012 12:35 PMPosted by Rextan
Commensalism - One benefits, one is neither harmed nor helped.
Don't forget
Parasitism - One benefits, the other is harmed.
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90 Night Elf Druid
10955
Also, I gave Symbiosis to a frost mage and he loved having Healing Touch. Holy pallies also like to get the Battle Rez. I also think resto shamans that suck at skipping trash (like me) would just love getting Prowl.
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90 Tauren Druid
4950
I love symbiosis in pvp. I always try to get fear from warrior.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17180
Symbiosis means BOTH parties benefit. Mutualism.

Too many times in both my tank spec and my resto spec I have been in a group where I have no reason to even cast Symbiosis.

Even ignoring the benefit the other player gets, as a tank in a 5 man can almost always get some use from:

- Bone shield / elusive brew: Yes it may only reduce damage taken about 1% overall. But less damage is less. If you don't want to manage it, just add it to another button and use it on CD to reduce damage.
- Feint - most zones (and definitely many raids) have some AE you could feint to reduce damage taken. Yes in a 5 man you may be unkillable. But less damage is less damage. If damage taken isn't a concern, pick up something that ups damage.

- Consecration: very nice for picking up adds ahead of time.
- Lightning shield: pretty good damage for 1 GCD and castable before a pull.

And then there are the things you could give to others:
- Battle rez for your paladin healer who let someone die or for the DPS who stood in poo.
- Tranq for your shadow priest for a bad pull.

Anyway, to say there's "no reason" is just wrong. There may not be a large benefit, especially in trivial content where damage and deaths are not a concern. And you may be too lazy to use the abilities you receive. But that doesn't mean there's no reason or no benefit. That just means you don't value the benefit enough to bother.
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70 Blood Elf Warrior
2660
Feint isn't bad of an ability, on some encounters where there's HUGE AoE raid damage, Feint is quite useful for helping to mitigate it.

Symbiosis is fine as is. Just because it doesn't work in one environment doesn't mean that it's just plain useless.


Something to make it useful for soloing would be nice. Considering PvE in this game is now like 90% dailies and the vast vast VAST majority of people do dailies by themselves, I'd like some return on a level 87 ability.
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94 Tauren Druid
8690
Grapple Weapon is moderately useful sometimes. I can't remember the name, but Boomkin get a nice survival CD from Warlocks. I've had fun with Intervene too. Anti Magic Shell is often amazing.

Haven't been feral long enough to give that perspective, but Soul Swap looks useful.
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100 Tauren Druid
13350
12/04/2012 02:36 PMPosted by Purrpledrank
I guess the biggest problem is that I mainly play guardian and I have only seen a very few things beneficial to tanks. Spinny bones, consecration and even lightning shield can be pretty good - but that's about it and if you don't have the right kind of player in your group you might not get it.

There's four classes I'll always cast Symbiosis on: monks and DKs for the defensive cooldowns, paladins and shamans for the offensive abilities.

In a five man, the chances that you won't have at least one of these classes are very very slim.

12/06/2012 11:23 AMPosted by Tappin
Anyway, to say there's "no reason" is just wrong. There may not be a large benefit, especially in trivial content where damage and deaths are not a concern. And you may be too lazy to use the abilities you receive. But that doesn't mean there's no reason or no benefit. That just means you don't value the benefit enough to bother.

What he said.
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85 Goblin Death Knight
10415
New druid abilities with each expansion do not have to be useful 100% of the time. Just look at mushrooms from Cata...worthless to most of the specs the majority of the time (imo).

At least you have options for PvP, PvE, 5-mans, and raids rather then getting stuck with an ability that is only useful in one of those enviroments.
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90 Night Elf Druid
8700
I love Symbiosis in PvP. :D
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