Get Rid of Totems

90 Draenei Shaman
7735
Or get rid of "bring the player not the class." You should get rid of one because they can't co-exist.

If totems are external (and easily killed) then they should be more powerful while they're up. This has been the case historically.

If buffs are standardized (as they are now) then they can't be more powerful, then every class shouldn't get their own purge for Shaman buffs alone. Blizzard, you cannot keep your cake and eat it too.

This is just the logical argument, never mind that the totem system you're using currently has ruined your "every tier and equal choice" talent trees.
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90 Draenei Shaman
9135
I have discussed this quite often with people ingame, but yet I seem to be the only one that thinks specs are becoming less and less unique.
Edited by Deverill on 11/24/2012 10:21 AM PST
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90 Troll Rogue
21055
Correct me if I'm wrong but at this point totems don't do raid buffs right? I thought part of the MoP shaman changes was making raid buffs into auras from the Shaman not totems.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7735
11/24/2012 10:26 AMPosted by Fierydemise
Correct me if I'm wrong but at this point totems don't do raid buffs right? I thought part of the MoP shaman changes was making raid buffs into auras from the Shaman not totems.


I believe you're right though I don't raid. Either way, totems are often not killed in PVE, no?

They are inherently a buff to the opposition in PVP.
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90 Troll Rogue
21055
11/24/2012 10:33 AMPosted by Thundahstahm
I believe you're right though I don't raid. Either way, totems are often not killed in PVE, no?

The only totem I've ever seen killed in PvE is searing totem and that was only when the boss incapacitates the entire raid for a phase transition (domo comes to mind).

If this is primarily a pvp thread I don't think you should invoke "bring the player" my understanding has always been that "bring the player" is a pve philosiphy. Blizzard will freely acknowledge that classes are not drop in replaceable in pvp like they are in pve.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7735
11/24/2012 10:44 AMPosted by Fierydemise
I believe you're right though I don't raid. Either way, totems are often not killed in PVE, no?

The only totem I've ever seen killed in PvE is searing totem and that was only when the boss incapacitates the entire raid for a phase transition (domo comes to mind).

If this is primarily a pvp thread I don't think you should invoke "bring the player" my understanding has always been that "bring the player" is a pve philosiphy. Blizzard will freely acknowledge that classes are not drop in replaceable in pvp like they are in pve.


Thats fair, but Bring the Player has led to homogenized buffs, no?

This is one of the few cases where PVE is effecting PVP.
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90 Troll Rogue
21055
Thats fair, but Bring the Player has led to homogenized buffs, no?

This is one of the few cases where PVE is effecting PVP.

Bring the player lead to homogenization of raid buffs yes but I'm not sure how thats relevant. Shaman raid buffs are provided by auras now, not totems. Shaman totems are now forms of non-buff utility and have for the most part not been part of the big homogenization push for any class.
Edited by Fierydemise on 11/24/2012 11:22 AM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
7735
Thats fair, but Bring the Player has led to homogenized buffs, no?

This is one of the few cases where PVE is effecting PVP.

Bring the player lead to homogenization of raid buffs yes but I'm not sure how thats relevant. Shaman raid buffs are provided by auras now, not totems. Shaman totems are now forms of non-buff utility and have for the most part not been part of the big homogenization push for any class.


This only factors in if we're complaining about raid buffs. I'm saying totems step on one another, and so our talents deny other talents. Look at our tree and make yourself the most defensive spec you can. If you actually tried to play with that tree you'd gimp yourself.

That aside, external buffs were external in the first place due to their power. Since homogenization they aren't more powerful anymore. Furthermore, they're being brought into the spell category so silences will effect them. If they're going to be spells, then lets not give everyone a purge against JUST 1 CLASS!
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42 Draenei Mage
550

I believe you're right though I don't raid. Either way, totems are often not killed in PVE, no?


"Bring the player, not the class" Is a PvE design goal, not a PvP one.

PvP balance is handled in an entirely different way, making whether or not totems are stronger/weaker immaterial (since you can balance that out in other ways)
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90 Draenei Shaman
7735

I believe you're right though I don't raid. Either way, totems are often not killed in PVE, no?


"Bring the player, not the class" Is a PvE design goal, not a PvP one.

PvP balance is handled in an entirely different way, making whether or not totems are stronger/weaker immaterial (since you can balance that out in other ways)


For example?

I can grasp that the original concept was PVE oriented, but I can't agree with the idea that BtP, NtC isn't the result of gutting totems. Now they're buffs like all others except purge-able.
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42 Draenei Mage
550


I can grasp that the original concept was PVE oriented, but I can't agree with the idea that BtP, NtC isn't the result of gutting totems. Now they're buffs like all others except purge-able.


Not gutting, just a really poorly implemented attempt to make totems more active and less passive. It has nothing to do with buff homogenization (well, to some extent it does, since buff homogenization made buff totems even less interesting and appealing than before, which compounds with the basics of passive buff totems not being interesting to begin with) and everything to do with Blizzard just being way too cautious and not following through on balancing the new totems.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
City of heroes and Everquest did "different but equal" classes pretty well.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9330
I like the idea of totems but the implementation has never been good.
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90 Undead Warlock
3910
ye they can get rid of totems i wouldn't notice, most of them barely do anything useful. I think i only use 5 out of 14... all it does is limit me.. and with 5 hp they aren't durable and yes i see mobs kill it in PVE esp the fire one before tank gets aggro off adds which then makes it useless to even have a totem to begin with.

The relatively few ones that are good aren't going to work when I'm silenced so there's no point in having them to begin with.. all having totems do is force me to stand near em to get any use out of them which is pathetic.
Edited by Nagomalda on 11/25/2012 5:52 AM PST
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