What if resilience reduced crit damage?

100 Human Warrior
14560
It seems to me most of the QQing I see about burst comes from a good string of crits during cooldowns. Rather than the regular suggestions of cooldown nerfs, what if you nerfed the crits themselves?

I know in the past resil reduced crit chance%. That didn't work out too well, but what I am suggesting is something like if you have 50% resilience, rather than taking 2x damage on a crit, you take 1.5x damage on a crit. So resil pulls double duty against crit damage, helping to reduce the massive burst.

Would this be workable?
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
Not every spec relies on critical strikes to deal their damage. Other specs rely on crits to make up for soft hitting attacks.
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They already tried this before. No one wants to return to that period when Warlocks and Shadow Priests were considered to be raid bosses. No I'm dead serious, at one point it was impossible to kill a fully-decked SL Warlock without a group.
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100 Orc Warrior
18255
that was back when dots were unable to crit, so they had to mae up for that with them doing a ton of base damage....now they can crit and are balanced around that, so it wouldnt be that bad now.
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It was a period when SL locks redefined "facerolling" as a viable arena-tactic. There were online instructions on how to map your keybinds and discussions on the proper technique of rolling your face on the keyboard. I'm serious, there were in-depth topics on what to do with small/large noses and how to reduce greasy residue left on the keys.
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90 Orc Warrior
7255
11/25/2012 07:52 AMPosted by Cbredbeard
Not every spec relies on critical strikes to deal their damage. Other specs rely on crits to make up for soft hitting attacks.
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100 Goblin Rogue
9380
Resil used to do just this, and it was a bad thing.
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90 Draenei Hunter
15360
So lets punish those overpowered classes that rely on crits. Why not just neuter mage dmg from the frost tree because it revolves around deep freeze?
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100 Human Warrior
14560
Well my point was that I've never seen anyone complain "man look at this 100k hit I took" it's "Look at these 3 crits that landed on me in two seconds that caused me to die instantly"

But apparently I was wrong and Resil did used to reduce crit damage? I could have sworn its old effect was reducing critical strike chance, not damage.
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100 Undead Mage
9635

 "Look at these 3 crits that landed on me in two seconds that caused me to die instantly"


Well the nice thing is that you know those statements are false. The global cool down prevents such occurrences as stated, so we can dismiss those who claim this as the liars they are.
Edited by Sethmann on 11/25/2012 12:27 PM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
7730
11/25/2012 12:26 PMPosted by Sethmann
The global cool down prevents such occurrences as stated


you could get 3 hits in 2 seconds easily by most classes.

things like frostbolt+icelance+Frostbomb detonation

or melee swing Heroic Strike Mortal Strike

or Lavaburst Chain lightning Fulmination.

either taking advantage of different speeds that the abilities fly at, or off the GCD abilities.
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90 Human Paladin
14125
The problem isn't crits, but a lot of classes don't have their damage spread out enough. Developers could take a page from Ret Paladins, as we don't have a single attack that stands out from the rest.

Warriors though have Execute that can hit for well over the total HP of most players in game. Frost Bomb is another example of this, but unlike Warriors, Mages do more damage in PvP then in PvE.

Felt like no thought was put into class balance this expansion what so ever.
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100 Human Warrior
14560
Honestly the biggest issue with Warrior damage is RNG TFB stacking, not so much Execute. I've seen complaints about warrior damage on everything from white hits to shockwave to heroic strike, but never seen a complaint about execute. Even if Execute was the major problem, without cooldowns and crits, I usually only see 100-120k or so damage on quest mobs. In PVP that should be down closer to 60-90k (depending on resil vs pvp power). Cooldowns/trinkets/crits all bring that up, but it's not so much the 60k hit thats the problem it's the "Hey where did my life bar go after that 200k crit?" that's the problem.

I don't know, I'll admit I don't PVP. The few times I've bothered have been extremely casual (the occasional BG, or entering arena with a shadowpriest friend to see if we kill anyone even in the low rankings without any pvp gear, that sort of thing). But I do spend time on the forums, and I very rarely see complaints about damage that don't focus around strings of big numbers. It seems to me the easiest way to balance that is to reduce the effects of those strings whether they come via RNG or via procs/cooldowns. Resilience/PVP power are the two obvious places to look to deal with that sort of thing as they are PVP exclusive and thus can be tuned without harming PVE balance.
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
11/25/2012 08:34 AMPosted by Vacken
that was back when dots were unable to crit, so they had to mae up for that with them doing a ton of base damage....now they can crit and are balanced around that, so it wouldnt be that bad now.


I guess that's why Shadow Priests are doing quite well atm.

11/25/2012 01:21 PMPosted by Secondwind
I don't know, I'll admit I don't PVP. The few times I've bothered have been extremely casual (the occasional BG, or entering arena with a shadowpriest friend to see if we kill anyone even in the low rankings without any pvp gear, that sort of thing)


Simple fix: TfB stacks only increase the damage by 50% (per stack) against a player.

This RNG BS with TfB is so stupid.
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90 Human Paladin
19345
I do not think that resilience should again reduce your chance to take a critical strike. Classes that rely on critical strikes for procs or bonuses (Boomkins and Warriors, for example) are disproportionately hurt by that type of reduction.

I do fully support and encourage the developers to consider resilience having an added bonus of reducing critical strike damage taken, but that seems to be only part of the equation. Things are much burstier now than they used to be, for sure, but consider how quickly someone can get healed.

What if there was instead a flat nerf to all PvP critical strikes (damage and heals) to 1.5x effectiveness (plus any meta effects)? I feel like that change would bring us back to an arena environment like we saw in mid-late WotLK, which, though it certainly wasn't perfect, I consider to be the most balanced PvP era in WoW's history and would have been a lot more so if they had taken out Hero / Bloodlust back then.
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100 Human Warlock
19710
11/25/2012 05:49 PMPosted by Hankscorpio
I do fully support and encourage the developers to consider resilience having an added bonus of reducing critical strike damage taken, but that seems to be only part of the equation.

That still punishes those that rely on crits. If I'm relying on crit as Destro, but Affliction is trying to shed crit as much as possible, does reducing crit damage not hurt me more than an Affliction Warlock?
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100 Human Warrior
14560
11/25/2012 06:11 PMPosted by Serinicas
I do fully support and encourage the developers to consider resilience having an added bonus of reducing critical strike damage taken, but that seems to be only part of the equation.

That still punishes those that rely on crits. If I'm relying on crit as Destro, but Affliction is trying to shed crit as much as possible, does reducing crit damage not hurt me more than an Affliction Warlock?


Okay here's a better question: How do you avoid this while still reducing burst? Honestly this is the problem I have with the currently unbalanced stat weights. Crit weights itself towards burst, while Haste lends itself towards more sustained damage. Mastery varies by spec. But if you have one spec whose only valuable stat is crit, they are going to be bursty, and there is no way to fix that while keeping them viable.

Simple fix: TfB stacks only increase the damage by 50% (per stack) against a player.

This RNG BS with TfB is so stupid.


We're already seeing it reduced to 3 stacks max, which should help with some of the RNG issues. But I would like to see more changes. One idea I saw that I really liked is for mastery procs to be able to proc TfB, but have TFB's bonus reduced all around.

Alternatively have the TFB buff give an increased crit chance but a smaller damage boost, so the average comes out the same, but those crit numbers are much lower. (Something like 66% damage and 20% crit rate per stack, capped at 3 stacks, means having the average damage remain the same relative to where it is now for PVE, but the crits would hit about 1/3 of what they do now)
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