Lore Question for character backstory...

86 Troll Priest
9060
Ignoring the incredibly petty argument this has turned into....

The other thing to consider here is, there's a BIG difference between being a "special snowflake" in that you are the most beautiful woman in the world, the illegitimate son of Illidan and Jaina, or the sole mage/warlock/druid/monk hybrid on Azeroth versus being a rare half-breed.

Realistically, some people in the world are going to be rare. That doesn't make them extraordinary.

Just for instance -- 2% of the world's population is ambidextrous. If you were RPing a character who was ambidextrous, would that character be a special snowflake? Would you all say "No, you can't do that! There's no ambidextrous characters in the lore!"
Cause I'd imagine, you wouldn't.
And if you wouldn't say it's wrong to RP something that's rare like that -- don't say it's wrong to RP something else that's rare. Rarity does *not* equal "special snowflake". It does not mean it's lore-breaking.


there is a difference between 2% and .0002%... the .0002% would be halfbreeds

there are 6 known... all lore characters or given shout-outs in lore, making a halfbreed of any kind would be a special snowflake because you'd be in that .0002%

out of millions of people canonically(?) there are only 6 half breeds
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90 Dwarf Mage
12450
12/04/2012 03:40 AMPosted by Kassalla
Firstly, I so hate you right now for pulling me back into this thread.


I didn't force you to post in it, please don't put this on me.

No. The ignoring thing, only works for what the person says in chat. You can't remove the character's pixels from your screen by using the ignore function.


I... don't understand how this will still come up to the same thing. I mean, yeah you might have to occasionally glance at them... but that's just like in real life. You ignore what a person says, you might still see them, but you don't pay attention to them.

12/04/2012 03:40 AMPosted by Kassalla
Are you forgetting the quote from Chris Metzen?


I still haven't seen this fabled quote.

I was posting my opinion and you directly called it false. I was insulted and still am. You dared to call my opinion false, when you have been doing nothing but state your opinion all thread and reject attempts by us to show you factually where you were mistaken in your opinions.


And you're allowed to call my opinions false, just as I'm allowed to fight for them for validation.

The great thing about opinions is, while one person says 'No, it's false' you can back it up and try to show them why it's not false in your view.

You don't have to resort to calling me a child.

Your own characters have showed an amount of intelligence and imagination that I don't see in many that I rp with, and yet, as you've said yourself, you usually stick to the class/race that the character is OOCly. You yourself are an example that with a little bit of imagination, it's possible to create interesting characters with what Blizzard has given us already, and yet, you are championing the idea of half races in the name of diversity


I'll put down the characters that break from the conventional norms I've seen so far.

My dwarf mage here as a runic mage and Titanic priest who is trying to ascend into the immortality of perfection first created by the Titans. Sadly, the most non-conventional bit is the runic mage.

My second paladin who is lauded as a legend, a hero of the Alliance and the best thing since sliced orc and is in all actuality a coward, a rogue, a liar, a cheat and wants nothing more than to live a life of leisure with a good woman and would honestly say 'Bugger the Light' if given the chance. Not an entirely original character, as he takes elements of Ciaphas Cain for the idea - but still one separate from the majority of paladins.

My NElf rogue, I guess, in that he doesn't (but secretly does) follow Elune. He believes in a second Night Elf deity (that is false) that he believes to be the brother to Elune and the dark side of the moon. But beyond that he's the standard assassin, just disguised in a motley mask and dark leathers.

It can be argued my dwarven thane is non-conventional, for the sheer fact he comes from a clan that venerates wolves.

And maybe my hunter? I'm not sure - he's a regular woodsman/ranger/huntsman who is an extreme dog person and serves as a scout on-and-off for Stormwind.

The rest are mostly standard procedure with only a few things in a backstory here and there to differentiate them from the paladins, druids, etc. that are cookie-cutter.

Tell me how half breeds are good for diversity in wow, when there is already so much diversity already?


To be honest? A lacking of more creative characters in the wider array of Azeroth. If people could come up with newer, fresher ideas without needing to go beyond the mould then more power to them - I don't advocate making these types of characters willy-nilly, despite what some may think, I advocate making these types of characters to try and also help better the person as a writer, it nurtures one form of creativity and might have them create an interesting character in the set standards of the character creation.

Not to mention trial and error comes into play, what does work for a character, what doesn't, etc. It's, admittedly, an odd route to go instead of just trying to steer them onto the direct path - but, given the characters I strive to create that remain within the bonds of in game creation mechanics and how I have come to this through multiple tests of trial and error, not just in WoW RP but in all RP in general, I have slowly begun making characters that are believable, creative, and thankfully not all shaped like stars and hearts.

So that's what I put into practice. I say okay to some of the wilder ideas to let them work their own way and their own path to creating the character they want - if that involves remaking, redoing and a longer time thinking over everything they can do to make a good character - EXCELLENT! It's much better to learn from your own mistakes by doing, than to learn from your own mistakes by being told, in my opinion.

(Cont'd)
Edited by Maoseitun on 12/4/2012 10:02 AM PST
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90 Dwarf Mage
12450
Onto the paragraph it looked like I skipped:

There's a difference between cliched and stale. While I can pick up two detective novels and see the various ways they're written over the same case - it's still interesting and worth the read because the character, despite knowing them, is the good kind of cliched. It's the type that makes you smile, it's the warmth of a familiar blanket or an old friend you're reading about.

Now, if I go into WoW and I see three paladins lined up, all male human, all holy knights of the Argent Crusade, Scarlet Crusade, or Cathedral of the Holy Light... it's not the same as the earlier cliched. It's stale. It's done too much. Which is not a blemish on the writer - that's the type of character most associate with the paladin class and that's the one most see through - my first paladin can almost be described as this, save for the fact his being a paladin is second to his having been a soldier, commander and tactician.

But the staleness comes from putting the class first and modeling the character after and around the class, now this does work in some cases - harkening to another argument, the pandaren paladin debate would have the pandaren being modeled around the class instead of it being its own character as the character itself is designed to work out his or her own internal conflict in trying to resolve their unorthodox path with the old faiths of their people.

But in most cases it is the character that makes the class, but this is generally treated as the reverse.

Which brings me into the point I made previously - advocating for diversity in others is to try and get them to learn and create better characters that fall within the strictures of class and race creation, but don't fall to the same stereotypes that seem to be afflicting all the races/classes currently.

My dwarf mage, as said, is the only one not following the class lore to the letter. And none of my characters disregard the race I chose - unless you count a Wildhammer Dwarf being separate from the dwarves on the creation screen :P

So in short, that's the main reason I'm advocating some people to go these paths - because I see it as being a natural step in the evolution of writing.
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89 Human Paladin
9115
there is a difference between 2% and .0002%... the .0002% would be halfbreeds

there are 6 known... all lore characters or given shout-outs in lore, making a halfbreed of any kind would be a special snowflake because you'd be in that .0002%

out of millions of people canonically(?) there are only 6 half breeds

So, to start with, WoW is a representative world. Not every person living on Azeroth is represented as a character. There are more humans than we see. More night elves. More blood elves. More high elves. More gnomes. More Draenei. And, yes, more half breeds.

Secondly, half-breeds in general there's more than six. The six you're referring to are the six lore character half-breeds. This is why you thought of them, and this is why you noticed they were all lore characters. Here's the actual list of every half-breed in the game thus far.
-The half-orc/half-ogre beastmaster heroes which were randomly generated in Warcraft III. So, that alone brings us higher than your "six" since it was common enough to be randomly generating names.
-Tagar Bearclaw (who is one of the WC3 randomly generated ones, but I thought he deserved special mention since he also appears in the Horde Player's Guide)
-Garona Halforcen; half-orc/half-Draenei (I know she's one of the ones you were thinking of)
-Lantresor of the Blade; half-orc/half-Draenei (NOT a lore character. Just a quest-giver.)
-Me'dan; orc/Draenei/human/Mary Sue
-Rexxar; half-orc/half-ogre
-Leoroxx; half-orc/half-ogre (NOT a lore character, just a quest giver)
-Arator the Redeemer; half-elf/half-human
-Giramar; half-elf/half-human
-Alodi; half-elf/half-human (though I suppose he's been dead for a very long time so I'm not sure he counts...)
-Lelior; *possibly* 3/4 elf and 1/4 troll

That's quite a few half breeds and they are not all lore characters.
As for whether or not a half-dwarf makes sense. We have a person who is part Draenei, part Orc, and part human. Those races come from three completely different planets. Any argument that a half-dwarf/half-human doesn't make sense or somehow ruins immersion is clearly irrelevant.

Might also be worth mentioning that half-elves are common enough that Kalecgos' mortal appearance is that of a half-elf. The Mok'Nathal are all, or are mostly, half-ogres and we don't know how many of them there are.
And this is all without ever bringing the RPG into this (except with Tagar Bearclaw).

My point, in summary, is that you have NO idea how many half-breeds there are. I'm not even sure you know the lore on them that well. When it comes down to it, there is not enough lore to make that judgment. All we know is half-breeds are uncommon and not always accepted. Anything beyond that is you basically whining that something can't be because there's no specific examples of it in the lore.

But you know what? Before the Burning Crusade there were no examples of beings completely made out of energy. Before Wrath of the Lich King, there were no examples of Death Knights not being part of the Scourge. (I mean, the new Death Knights not the WC2 Death Knights.) Before Cata, there were no examples of traveling *forward* in time from the Caverns of Time. Before Pandaria, there were no Sha.
It's a fantasy world. There is always more than be added. It doesn't need to be added by Blizzard -- that's why we're RPing. To create our own stories and our own lore in Azeroth.

This when you guys come in with the "that's how we get terrible RP" and, y'know what? It isn't. You know how you get terrible RP? By being elitists about RP. By not helping people who are struggling with their RP or their ideas.
Instead of "No, that wouldn't work" try "Interesting. I'm not sure that would work, but let me help you figure it out." Or, "Hey, I think I see what you're trying to do with your character -- can I make a suggestion?" Even "I just want to make sure you're not doing this just to be a special snowflake -- that can be really annoying, and I want to help you make sure the maximum number of people want to RP with you." It opens a dialogue, rather than shutting someone down or making them go off on their own when they may need help. It gives an opportunity for someone who is struggling to improve. This lore-police behavior does not.
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90 Human Priest
11860
It's totally doable. There was one in the first Omnibus manga thing.
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