Brawler's Guild and Healers

90 Human Hunter
10970
Remind me again... which is the healing only class?
Edited by Doofenshmirt on 12/4/2012 9:30 PM PST
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Paladin
14940
I'm a Tank or a Healer.

In my first fight fire from the sky started to drop when I won, and I died.
In my second fight fire from the sky started to drop when I won, and I died.

I'm one win away from reaching Rank 2 but if my DPS, as a Tank, is so painfully low to beat the timer, I'm done. My Healer DPS is even lower. This is strongly favouring self-healing DPS specs.

I can go Ret but... then I have to drop being Tank or Healer. I tank for Dungeons/LFR and I heal for RBGs. I'd rather not be swapping my spec back and forth every week, pick up an entire DPS set, and learn Ret.

Most difficult will be getting a 2H weapon.

What proposed solutions are there?
Edited by Grimdy on 12/6/2012 10:08 PM PST
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Paladin
14940
12/04/2012 09:30 PMPosted by Doofenshmirt
Remind me again... which is the healing only class?


Don't be a troll.

It's a legitimate concern that of the 34 specs out there Tanks and Healers make up 9 are not viable, period. You're over 25% of the population who, in a standard 25 man raid represent 33% of the players.

Pure DPS classes are excluded from this concern, and you're one of them so I understand you can't empathize with us but please show a little sympathy for so many players affected by this.

We don't want to be forced to do something a particular way when it's solo content.
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
14595
I know, everyone is saying go dps.... well what about healers that don't have a dps spec?
This is not the case for me, but what if a priest was disc/holy... what are they to do?


Do what I did. Switch one to Shadow.

One could be the best healer or tank in the world, but the Brawler's Guild will still be designed against them because it's made for DPS, not healers or tanks.


If one really was the best tank or healer in the world, then that person would have no trouble picking up a DPS spec and playing it well.

What proposed solutions are there?


Go DPS.

Seriously. Every class can go DPS. Not every class can tank or heal. If you don't have a dps spec or gear, you have the option to pick up a dps spec and gear it up. If you don't want to do so, you can either have a very tough time getting past the early ranks, or not take part.

PS - I disc'd my way to rank 3 or 4, until I couldn't beat enrage timers. Then respecced and steamrolled to rank 7 as shadow.
Reply Quote
100 Tauren Druid
14625
12/06/2012 10:16 PMPosted by Grimdy
We don't want to be forced to do something a particular way when it's solo content.


Challenging solo content has always forced you to do something a particular way. It's just that 90% of the time it's "do it as a blood DK or wait until the next tier or two of gear comes out".

BTW, Bruce has what? 1.7M health? Fire enrage starts a little under 2 minutes in, at 2 minutes you blow up and insta-die.
Even rounding that down to 100s, that's 17k DPS, which is an absolutely painfully low number for a tank to be doing. Really, tanks shouldn't start having DPS trouble until at least rank 4-1 with Crush. Actually, before several of the bosses were buffed (in other words, when battletron still had ~5.4M health), I met a blood DK in rank 8. He didn't have DPS gear, and supposedly had not used a DPS spec for ANY of the rank 1-7 bosses.
Reaching rank 8 (or nowadays, rank 7, because battletron probably isn't happening) solely as a tank doesn't scream "excluded" to me.

12/06/2012 10:16 PMPosted by Grimdy
Tanks and Healers make up 9

Lol, poor monks. So not used to counting them, are you?
Edited by Ahanss on 12/6/2012 10:22 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
14595
12/06/2012 10:16 PMPosted by Grimdy
Remind me again... which is the healing only class?


Don't be a troll.

It's a legitimate concern that of the 34 specs out there Tanks and Healers make up 9 are not viable, period. You're over 25% of the population who, in a standard 25 man raid represent 33% of the players.


Every last one of the players who play a tank and healing spec has access to a DPS spec as well. There is no tank-only or heal-only class.

We don't want to be forced to do something a particular way when it's solo content.


You aren't forced to do this. You really aren't. There are no rewards past achievements, small amounts of gold, minor cosmetics, etc. You can take part in this as whatever spec you want, but if you want to actually advance past the early ranks, you have to go DPS.

Every single person who plays a tank or healer can respec to DPS and do it the way it's intended. It isn't Blizzard's fault that people are either too lazy to gear up offspecs or not smart enough to figure out how to DPS.

Go Dps. Or go do something else.
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Paladin
14940


Don't be a troll.

It's a legitimate concern that of the 34 specs out there Tanks and Healers make up 9 are not viable, period. You're over 25% of the population who, in a standard 25 man raid represent 33% of the players.


Every last one of the players who play a tank and healing spec has access to a DPS spec as well. There is no tank-only or heal-only class.

We don't want to be forced to do something a particular way when it's solo content.

You aren't forced to do this. You really aren't. There are no rewards past achievements, small amounts of gold, minor cosmetics, etc. You can take part in this as whatever spec you want, but if you want to actually advance past the early ranks, you have to go DPS.

Every single person who plays a tank or healer can respec to DPS and do it the way it's intended. It isn't Blizzard's fault that people are either too lazy to gear up offspecs or not smart enough to figure out how to DPS.

Go Dps. Or go do something else.


You're not making any sense. Your claims are unfounded too. If eveything is a 2 minute fight and mobs start off with close to 2M HP that works out to a starting DPS of ~16.7k. Yes, I can win my first few fights, but, HP go up, rapidly.

Assume for a mere moment that tanks won't do past 30k single target DPS. In 120 seconds you can do a maximum of 3.6 million damage. You're done after that.

And good luck on a tank pulling those numbers.

Healers? LAWL.

So ... no, you can't do it in whatever spec you want. DPS have serious issues so with the time constraint you're ignoring obvious facts and restrictions and are welcome to troll elsewhere.

Your premise of: change to DPS ignores the problem that Tanks/Healers CANNOT do this content SOLELY because of the time constraint.

And no, I'm not forced to do this, I payed 14k on the AH to find out I won't make it past Rank 2 and I'm upset by this, and rightly so.

Brawling shouldn't be solely about a DPS race, in my opinion. This is supposed to be about skill, not solely your gear and the ability to hit things while moving. It ignores the utility of Tank and Healer abilities and I find that sorely lacking in imagination and unduly punishing.
Edited by Grimdy on 12/8/2012 10:58 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Warrior
10405


Every last one of the players who play a tank and healing spec has access to a DPS spec as well. There is no tank-only or heal-only class.


You aren't forced to do this. You really aren't. There are no rewards past achievements, small amounts of gold, minor cosmetics, etc. You can take part in this as whatever spec you want, but if you want to actually advance past the early ranks, you have to go DPS.

Every single person who plays a tank or healer can respec to DPS and do it the way it's intended. It isn't Blizzard's fault that people are either too lazy to gear up offspecs or not smart enough to figure out how to DPS.

Go Dps. Or go do something else.


You're not making any sense. Your claims are unfounded too. If eveything is a 2 minute fight and mobs start off with close to 2M HP that works out to a starting DPS of ~16.7k. Yes, I can win my first few fights, but, HP go up, rapidly.

Assume for a mere moment that tanks won't do past 30k single target DPS. In 120 seconds you can do a maximum of 3.6 million damage. You're done after that.

And good luck on a tank pulling those numbers.

Healers? LAWL.

So ... no, you can't do it in whatever spec you want. DPS have serious issues so with the time constraint you're ignoring obvious facts and restrictions and are welcome to troll elsewhere.

Your premise of: change to DPS ignores the problem that Tanks/Healers CANNOT do this content SOLELY because of the time constraint.

And no, I'm not forced to do this, I payed 14k on the AH to find out I won't make it past Rank 2 and I'm upset by this, and rightly so.

Brawling shouldn't be solely about a DPS race, in my opinion. This is supposed to be about skill, not solely your gear and the ability to hit things while moving. It ignores the utility of Tank and Healer abilities and I find that sorely lacking in imagination and unduly punishing.


The enrage timers ARE the difficulty on many fights. Anyone can dodge !@#$ on Epicus and Disruptron all day while slowly chipping away, however the difficulty stems from being able to maximize damage on top of this. I've only downed 1/4 at Rank 8, and I can't wait to finally beat those timers.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Warrior
11060
Because this game is made for DPS.

It's why other games are staying away from the holy trinity of MMO's, because it's a terrible system that pigeonholes people into boring, tedious and unrewarding roles that the developers possibly can't cater to in any way outside of dungeons.


Nothing else needs to be said, this guy basically summed it up.

There's really nothing that can be done, this was something set in motion back in 2004 when the game was introduced. There's really nothing that can reasonably be done here.

What you CAN do is laugh when people complain that healers have quick queue times in LFR, though. Do they really not understand why such a small group of players actually elect to heal, when it's the most unrewarding experience WoW has to offer?
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
14595


Every last one of the players who play a tank and healing spec has access to a DPS spec as well. There is no tank-only or heal-only class.


You aren't forced to do this. You really aren't. There are no rewards past achievements, small amounts of gold, minor cosmetics, etc. You can take part in this as whatever spec you want, but if you want to actually advance past the early ranks, you have to go DPS.

Every single person who plays a tank or healer can respec to DPS and do it the way it's intended. It isn't Blizzard's fault that people are either too lazy to gear up offspecs or not smart enough to figure out how to DPS.

Go Dps. Or go do something else.


You're not making any sense. Your claims are unfounded too. If eveything is a 2 minute fight and mobs start off with close to 2M HP that works out to a starting DPS of ~16.7k. Yes, I can win my first few fights, but, HP go up, rapidly.

Assume for a mere moment that tanks won't do past 30k single target DPS. In 120 seconds you can do a maximum of 3.6 million damage. You're done after that.

And good luck on a tank pulling those numbers.

Healers? LAWL.

So ... no, you can't do it in whatever spec you want. DPS have serious issues so with the time constraint you're ignoring obvious facts and restrictions and are welcome to troll elsewhere.

Your premise of: change to DPS ignores the problem that Tanks/Healers CANNOT do this content SOLELY because of the time constraint.

And no, I'm not forced to do this, I payed 14k on the AH to find out I won't make it past Rank 2 and I'm upset by this, and rightly so.

Brawling shouldn't be solely about a DPS race, in my opinion. This is supposed to be about skill, not solely your gear and the ability to hit things while moving. It ignores the utility of Tank and Healer abilities and I find that sorely lacking in imagination and unduly punishing.


You aren't forced to do this. You really aren't. There are no rewards past achievements, small amounts of gold, minor cosmetics, etc. You can take part in this as whatever spec you want, but if you want to actually advance past the early ranks, you have to go DPS.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Shaman
14905
How was this thread even formed as an idea in OP's mind?

"Hmmm, I have to go dps it looks like"

"But I can't! I don't have the 7 year old brain capacity requuired to push sunfire, moonfire, then spam Wrath or Starfire and hit my pink Starsurge button!"

"I know, instead of learning how to do it, I'll go make a thread asking for them to make dreamwalker fights so I don't have to do anything different"

Healing a raid requires more attention and higher thought processes than DPSing does. Don't tell us you're bad at dps. I zone out when I'm elemental, it's so simple. I still zone out during boring parts of fights I heal on, but I'm more attentive than when I'm dpsing.

If you've always healed and never, not once, gone boomkin, now is your time to learn about the other third of your class (I guess fourth now that guardians a spec). Blizzard is doing you a service, and opening your eyes to the world of what we call, dpsing.

In the time it took you (OP) to write out all the responses you've written, or think of these ideas, you could've flown to your Druid trainer, respecced boomkin and already be progressing through the ranks. But instead you made this thread to tell everyone you're incompetent and lazy, while at the same time telling everyone all you do is something which is is more difficult than DPSing.

Derp. Mother !@#$ing derp.
Edited by Thundër on 12/8/2012 11:15 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Orc Warlock
13430
There are so many problems with this idea. The OP complains that it would require a switch to DPS to complete, something his class is able to do, so instead there should be a healer/tank-oriented arena, because right now he is being excluded from something. Pure DPS classes would be, by definition, completely excluded from this new arena with no options to get in at all.

Additionally, the removal of enrage timers would necessitate a complete overhaul of the queue system, as you'd literally just be sitting there forever watching healers/tanks slowly dps bosses of any rank down. And if you make it an individual queue system, you remove the social aspect of it, which quite frankly I love. I like sitting in a buff group watching familiar faces attempt the higher rounds with their own strategies, seeing new players come in and try the lower ones, waiting for my chance to try and get a win (I'll get you eventually, GG Engineering).

There will always be imbalance and certain things that certain classes/specs cannot do, it's just the nature of the game. Otherwise, we'd all just be playing druids with access to all roles and specializations in one giant super-spec. I call it...Resferbalian.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
11430
First of all, Brawler's Guild is pretty awesome. The biggest reason why (imo), is people are learning how to be better at their class. Sidenote:The Rank 8 fights are especially great and I hope they add more fights like these to the game.:)

I love the idea of healer and tank guilds that are seperate from the Brawler's Guild, they would be a great addition to the game. I don't think changing the current Brawler's guild to something more "healer" friendly would be a good idea though because that's not what it's meant to be.
Edited by Brokenland on 12/9/2012 1:37 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13960
I am tank/healer, and I solo content all the time, for example 10-men ICC's first 2 bosses. It is utterly disappointment that I find out I cannot beat the timer in a rank2 fight. I understand the need for a timer so people do not drag the fight forever, but to make it so short that ONLY dps class can do it is at least very disappointing, if not unfair to people like me. This is a legit question, that limiting people's choice is not going to enhance the experience. I do not like DPS and I do not have the gears to do it well. I hear people saying, "hey, you got your faster cue time, you got your bags of goods in LFD, stop all this complaining". All of these are not designed to benefit tanks/healers, if DPS is in need you will also get those benefits. The reason DPS is never in demand is because things like brawler's guild, which is DESIGNED to discriminate tanks and healers. I can go rant about a lot other aspects of the game, but why bother? No wonder less people want to tank/heal.

If we are talking about "the spirit" of brawler's guild. It is not real, for god's sake. It is a game, and .iIt can be anything it wants to be as long as it is fair to every player. I only know that discrimination is against that spirit.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
12/13/2012 06:06 AMPosted by Sangil
am tank/healer, and I solo content all the time, for example 10-men ICC's first 2 bosses. It is utterly disappointment that I find out I cannot beat the timer in a rank2 fight.
Get better gear. I can beat the enrage on every fight up to rank 5 except Yeti - and that's only because he never actually hits you.

You will have to switch to DPS eventually though. Deal with it.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13960
Everyone just assume people who do not want to switch to dps for brawler's league is lazy and uninteresting. From I am reading so far, they also pretty much agree that in a raid dps is actually easier than healing or tanking. The reason I do not have a dps spec is simply because I do not think it offers enough fun.
What I mean to say is all the DPSers complain long cue time and crappy tanks, etc, and you do not realize why that is the case. It took me twice as long to do dailies when MOP starts, and I do not get gears for my other spec in LFR. Now the brawler's guild make it hard for me to participate. So there goes your cue time, because I might have to discard one of my spec and regear for ret, and I am sure some of us are already doing it.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
12/13/2012 04:47 PMPosted by Sangil
Now the brawler's guild make it hard for me to participate. So there goes your cue time, because I might have to discard one of my spec and regear for ret, and I am sure some of us are already doing it.

Pretty sure that if you aren't gearing a secondary DPS spec as a tank, attaining high ranks in Brawler's Guild wasn't intended for you.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
3640
I can see and understand both sides of the argument, however, as a healer, I have to side with Olorii on this one. I don't think there should be a separate guild for heals, but I think something should be implemented. I know from doing quests and LFR in pandaland, that the game is capable of distinguishing your spec and making adjustments based on that. You do a quest in pandaland in dps spec, and you get dps gear. So I think that when you enter the brawlers guild, a similar adjustment should be made. I really like the idea of adding bosses similar to dreamwalker. Here's why:

Brawler's guild provides a great place for DPS to go and improve their skills at playing their class/spec. It encourages you to use many of your abilities that many casual players may not have used otherwise. It basically teaches them to play their class better. I went in in my dps spec once, and failed miserably, but of the several attempts that day, I was forced to revisit my spell book and learn what some of my abilities were all about. Going to fill in for my guilds core group as dps the following week, they noticed a difference in my dps and survivablilty.

That being said, why is it such a bad idea to implement different boss spawns for different specs? I mean, keep the enrage timer, keep the difficulty level, just instead of giving healers and tanks the same bosses as dps, throw us something that will test us and help us to learn our roles better.
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Warrior
18035
Why do so many people feel like the world of Warcraft revolves around them?

You cant brawlers guild in heal spec
You can't pvp in green PvE gear
You can't heal a raid as a Ret pally
You can't tank a heroic raid boss as a Mage

None of these things are discriminatory, give your freaking head a shake whoever through that word out there, please. This is how the game was designed;

If you want to be a brawler then you need a dps spec and decent dps gear
If you want to pvp you need pvp gear (or to reroll warrior, but that's a different discussion)
If you want to heal a raid as a pally you need a holy spec / gear
If you want to tank you need to play a tanking class

I shudder to think of a game designed by some of the people in this thread.

Tl;dr - go do pet battles if you want to remain healing spec, the rewards are much greater than the brawlers guild.
Edited by Fitsi on 2/14/2013 12:23 PM PST
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]