DPS Monks: A Plea

90 Human Monk
8150
I've been playing this game for 6 years... and all 6 years I've done nothing but pvp. I REALLY want to enjoy playing my monk and other alts but cant stand the game in its current design.

It's true that if some of the other OP classes were tuned down, I may have a spot in pvp groups, but lets face it, what does a WW monk have that another class couldn't bring at 200% better rate?

  • Warriors damage.
  • You slap EVERYONE in the face every time you say this is a good design and that it IS NOT out of control. IT IS. Do something about it or you WILL see a drop on subscriptions.

  • Mages damage.
  • When I joined the bandwagon on my hunter, can you guess which class cried the hardest about hunter burst / bugs? Mages. And it's because they have been ON TOP of the pvp food chain for years. Frost bomb in conjunction with ONE HUNDRED % crit chance in novas / deeps means free kills left and right.

    I had HIGH hopes for monks coming into this expansion because I LOVE the feel of a punching/kicking class, but DREAD the day that I have to look for an arena team, or GOD FORBID an RBG team that's willing to take a GIMPED class.

    Broken Monk Mechanics:

  • Zen Meditation:
  • This could be a very interesting ability, but is so easily countered, that the other team usually doesn't even know they countered it. Casters can silence or interrupt it and anything that touches you breaks the effect. It is not on my bar.

  • Offhealing:
  • For a hybrid class, our offhealing is pitiful. PITIFUL. I'm not sure if this healing scales with gear, but in my current honor/crafted pieces, I couldn't outheal a rend bleed after running away from a warrior at 15% life. Rets / enhs / eles / spriests / ferals / boomkins / WARLOCKS / wars / DKs.... ALL of them have better self heals then WW monks.

  • "Gap Closers"
  • Take note of the quotations around "Gap Closers". Monks have 3 different abilities that are considered gap closers, and it's very easy to say that that is more than other classes... but these abilites are very unique to monks in their own right. We have Roll/or/torpedo, Tiger's Lust, and Flying serpent kick. Along with our pvp gloves set bonus - "All snare effects will be cleared upon using roll, chi torpedo, or Flying Serpent Kick" - these abilities also remove snares. Sounds pretty sweet right? WRONG. Here's why these are broken::

    Roll/Chi Torpedo - While these are excellent when the enemy is +20 yards away, it does NOTHING to help when you are snared and the enemy is 5-10 yards away (which is surprisingly MOST of the time if you try and stick to someone thats running away from you) as you will roll/torpedo PAST them another 5-10 yards and wont be able to get into melee range. (Keep in mind that our snare is only usable in melee range and gets parried/dodged more than I like to think about).

    Tiger's Lust - This is my favorite ability and almost has nothing wrong with it except that I curse the world when this isn't up and I get kited to death (30 second cd) I would have quit my monk a long time ago if I didn't have this.

    Flying Serpent Kick - This ability is questionable because in pvp your opponent is ALWAYS moving. If you don't aim this correctly, or you have any kind of latency, this ability is hit or miss depending on how smart your opponent is.

    I know that monks "Gap Closers" are very unique and give the monk a certain "feel" that other classes don't have.... but for pvp that can be a very bad thing. If I could suggest anything... it would be to let monks have some minor glyphs that alter roll / serpent kick to move towards our target if we have an enemy targeted.

  • Paralyze / Spear Hand Strike / Blackout Kick Positioning Requirements -
  • I don't have a huge problem with how these abilities work differently depending on which way your opponent is facing. My problem is that it is VERY hard to tell which way the enemy is facing in the heat of combat. Either change these or create something added to the target reticule that shows which way the person is facing.

  • Dematialize -
  • I know that most of you have noticed that when you stun a monk, a lot of abilities will miss them while they are stunned. What you probably didn't know is that this ability is exclusive to Mistweaver Monks, not windwalkers. I keep telling myself that I will survive that SINGLE deep freeze or that SINGLE shockwave when I get more resilience.... but the more gear I get, the more frustrated I get because I'm not seeing any substantial difference. Why not make this ability monk baseline?

    I would love any feedback from the community as I wont claim to know everyones point of view.... but from where I'm standing.... I'm not seeing any reason to play this gimped class even though I love them. I MEAN LOOK AT MY TRANSMOG! :P /endrage
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    90 Human Monk
    8150
    Bumpzzzz
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    90 Night Elf Druid
    7565
    inc purebalance backseat modding
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    90 Human Rogue
    7830
    11/22/2012 02:47 AMPosted by Restorata
    inc purebalance backseat modding


    ROFL, yep. Probly GC in disguise.
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    88 Gnome Warlock
    2030
    Yes there is a lot of whining in this, but I agree overall. I love the feel of my monk like he does, but I also LOVE pvp. So it's hard to play a monk for you love pvp given its current state. This is how I felt about warriors before expansion. I loved warriors, but it was impossible to close the gap on most opponents. Overall though I love the expansion, and I feel no matter what Blizz does the game will be unbalanced for someone.
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    90 Human Monk
    8150
    I think that it's a combination of the two

    1. Monks are very squishy and require a high skill cap to be good
    and
    2. Other classes are unbalanced and require a very low skill cap to roll the monk

    Bad design.
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    90 Human Death Knight
    6570
    to roll the monk


    I see what you did there.
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    86 Undead Priest
    8950
    I think that it's a combination of the two

    1. Monks are very squishy and require a high skill cap to be good
    and
    2. Other classes are unbalanced and require a very low skill cap to roll the monk

    Bad design.


    1. What makes you think they have a high skill cap?
    2. Some classes are gonna be stronger but not many, and things are always ever changing ( patch 5.1) for example.

    Funny when i read these posts and wonder, would u post if your class was OP to be toned down? Because some things that people ask for make me wonder if they ever played this game before or that spec (healer,melee,caster).

    This is not just a poke at monks this a poke at every class seeming to want more and more and some of the things seem so overboard and everyone wants those changes to go thru. Makes me wonder if u really want balance or you're to lazy to re-roll something OP.
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    90 Human Hunter
    9190
    1. What makes you think they have a high skill cap?
    2. Some classes are gonna be stronger but not many, and things are always ever changing ( patch 5.1) for example.


    1. Blizzard has already posted that this class requires a high skill cap to be competitive, and this is also reflected in the .01% of ww monks that are currently 2200.
    2. The problem with that is that groups or teams that want to progress as a group will NEVER choose the monk over class X that is better in every way. With Blizzard force feeding RBGs down our throat, they need to give us a fighting chance. (<see what i did ther??)

    11/22/2012 10:36 PMPosted by Onetwö
    Funny when i read these posts and wonder, would u post if your class was OP to be toned down? Because some things that people ask for make me wonder if they ever played this game before or that spec (healer,melee,caster).


    << Here is my OP class, and I was one of the first admitting that our burst was out of control. Is anyone asking for something that would make Monks too strong? If so, make your argument about something specific rather then leaving your comment vague and unjustified.

    This is not just a poke at monks this a poke at every class seeming to want more and more and some of the things seem so overboard and everyone wants those changes to go through. Makes me wonder if u really want balance or you're to lazy to re-roll something OP.


    No one should be forced to play a class simply because the one they like is not competitive. We all trust that Blizzard is smart enough to make good decisions when it comes to class balance, and there are some things that people suggest that are unrealistic, but my post is not.
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    86 Undead Priest
    8950
    1. Blizzard saying something has a high skill cap doesn't say much if you've actually played this game that long you would know. And there's not alot of monks at 2k+ rating, but neither are dks, rogues, and some other classes are pigeonholed into 1 spec as is also. Hell look at hunters, ppl dont even play with them anymore for the most part.

    2. I can see where you're coming from with that but that's a community issue not a class issue. Look at it this way, have u ever seen so many mages,locks, warriors, shamans before in your life cause i haven't. Its so easy to lvl and gear in this game that most players just take the easy way out. Which also effects how many of XYZ class you see on ladder, IE: monks low represented. Because frankly just like you yourself, u HAD/HAVE another class to play with before your monk and it happened to be good.

    And as far as changes, you might feel "grass is greener" playing the monk class but ill tell u this, there's alot of complaints for other classes as well and they are dumb too. You play a monk, u obviously are on the forums do u not think most !@#$ ppl ask for is just stupid? cause i do.

    And I'm not gonna pick thru every single thing u posted about but just look at your statement of "off healing" . Sure other classes(hybrids) are dumb with off heals, but why not ask that to get toned down because them having that ability to do that effects everyone fighting those classes. Instead u wanna be that guy that heals for a ton.

    And positional requirements for your "silence" pummel. Played a rogue before? ill let u figure that out, and ppl been doing that for years be lucky that u can silence with it.

    Besides you're getting hella buffs to an already solid class come 5.1 and it may seem bleak the way it is now but that's cause other classes are dumb.

    And as to your last statement, i don't believe ppl shouldn't play what they find fun, but that doesn't always come with balance. Some things will always and should always be different/better and some things seem stronger when paired with other things, example. If u played 3v3 as WW monk, balance druid, rogue that %^-* is gonna seem terrible compared to warrior,mage, shaman for example.

    I dunno i typed too much stuff, TLDR things are fine and only gettin better for everyone in time and will still change after that. Put the pitchforks down
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    90 Pandaren Monk
    13160
    Seriously I know this is a QQ tread but latelly even QQ got overated and silly, but it's the only way to complain about something.

    I feel sometimes that Blizzard has no testing phase when they release a patch or expansions.

    It's always the same thing.
      Really OP classes that dominate everyone and everything.

      And really nerfed ones where most of them waste months of lvling and gear upgrade to find out that they should have wasted more time on his alt than on the character they lvl first 5 years ago because he really identified himself with (my case).


    And don't come to me with this pure DPS crap because this really makes no sense and you guys simply don't really care and think about it, we have druids always being good at almost everything and they don't even fall behind doing any of it.

    it's like we live in a rat lab, and they experiment on us to see what happens.

    I simply lvl this monk because I could not stand priest being held back each expansion. It was really frustrating do the same thing over and over and not learn a thing from it.

    Now I feel sad when I see priest with a lot more gear score than me doing less dps on fights.
    Edited by Siemens on 11/24/2012 6:33 AM PST
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    90 Pandaren Monk
    13025
    Warriors damage.
    You slap EVERYONE in the face every time you say this is a good design and that it IS NOT out of control. IT IS. Do something about it or you WILL see a drop on subscriptions.


    I'm not that high rating but Warriors are not that scary to me, just disarm them when they go to stun and touch of karma afterwards and watch 9/10 warriors beat on you still as you lay on the pressure. I have never had issues with warriors unless they had a partner that could chain CC me into the ground.

    Mages damage.
    When I joined the bandwagon on my hunter, can you guess which class cried the hardest about hunter burst / bugs? Mages. And it's because they have been ON TOP of the pvp food chain for years. Frost bomb in conjunction with ONE HUNDRED % crit chance in novas / deeps means free kills left and right.

    I had HIGH hopes for monks coming into this expansion because I LOVE the feel of a punching/kicking class, but DREAD the day that I have to look for an arena team, or GOD FORBID an RBG team that's willing to take a GIMPED class.


    Mages are just a pain in the !@# with all their roots and snares, their mobility is amazing while being able to deny us any uptime on them. Really most classes have trouble with mages, not just monks.

    Zen Meditation:
    This could be a very interesting ability, but is so easily countered, that the other team usually doesn't even know they countered it. Casters can silence or interrupt it and anything that touches you breaks the effect. It is not on my bar.


    I will agree it needs something to make it a bit more... viable. It is good against dual caster comps if they go to focus your partner though.

    Offhealing:
    For a hybrid class, our offhealing is pitiful. PITIFUL. I'm not sure if this healing scales with gear, but in my current honor/crafted pieces, I couldn't outheal a rend bleed after running away from a warrior at 15% life. Rets / enhs / eles / spriests / ferals / boomkins / WARLOCKS / wars / DKs.... ALL of them have better self heals then WW monks.


    Lies and freaking slander, I have easily outheal damage with keeping chi-wave and expel harm rolling, we have wonderful, if limiited, self and off healing abilities. If you can't figure out how to use them right, your doing something wrong.

    On the whole subject of gap closers I see you even forgot to mention Disable a 50% snare that we can reapply to root the target, along with an auto refresh if we can stay within 10 yards of the target. That either forces the target to disengage to get the snare off, or using a cd to purge it least we keep punching them in the face.

    On flying serpent kick and roll, those do indeed take some skill to land properly, might be part of that "high skill cap" that blizzard was talking about, but what do I know, I'm just 1300 rating.

    It personally seems that monks have hash uptime on targets cause it has such high sustained damage, once the buffs on ptr come on, it will be a ton easier to keep up with people and apply even more damage. (1 stack for 30% arm pen will be amazing, can't even keep it up right now under normal arena) Monk seem to me like a very powerful melee v melee class, we just need a bit of help when it comes to casters and classes with over the top CC tools. Yet, the CC issues I think is a different topic, blizz should look into consolidating the DR pools of CC, letting fears and stuns work against each other and the like.
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    90 Human Monk
    8150
    I have 2200 experience as a pvper and I've played this game for a long time. I don't have trouble "aiming" my gap closers. I DO however have a hard time aiming my gap closers at OTHER pvpers that have half a brain to.... strafe left? If you play other people that are 1400 then it's understandable that you think monks are in a "good spot"
    Edited by Brizzlee on 11/25/2012 12:02 AM PST
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    90 Pandaren Shaman
    9330
    It seems like mostly what monks need is better damage.

    p.s. warlocks have been better than mages every season :P
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    90 Human Monk
    8150
    All we REALLY need is Dematrialize like mistweavers have
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    90 Pandaren Monk
    8815
    The problem is if we line up (and get lucky) RSK -> BoK x3 (with 4 chi and a proc) we can do a considerable amount of damage (with a bit of luck / critting) this would be definately bursty... were other classes not doing this 5-6+ gcd damage in only 2-3.

    My complaints overall could be fixed with run speed, dematerialize, and a range increase to disable. I still strongly believe we need a new mastery that isn't so GCD intensive as well as a significant change to how FoF works but those are neither here nor there.

    My only other issue that is somewhat tied to dematerialize / longevity would be self healing, as with the incoming nerf, and us already lacking behind others, we'll be hurting pretty badly there as well. I'd be happy to call it a day with a glyph that forces Chi Wave to heal the caster only if below 100% and either a CD reduction or a small buff (WW only) to EH.
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    90 Blood Elf Monk
    3810
    I don't really have a problem with how the class is now.. Of course I would love some DPS increases.. but who wouldn't .. My main problem, which is most likely how I am interpreting the bonus skill on equip of PvP gloves. I was hoping that I could Roll OUT of snare.. not just roll to keep from it..

    I do not yet have my PvP weapon, just an ilvl 487 staff from LFR.. I will most likely see a difference in DPS after that. I do like how the Orb from Zen Sphere Procs my weapon/trinket equip skills though.. :D nobody nerf that too! haha
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