Hunter burst is OP, but not warrior?

90 Dwarf Warrior
14765
11/28/2012 12:22 PMPosted by Sariph
Dragon's Roar hit (yes hit) me for 288,864 yesterday.


Tell me more about how dragon roar hit you.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16330
Wanna tone down warrior burst but keep sustained pressure viable. Stagger the CD stacking. Banner/Reck/Trink/Avatar (are you guys still taking that after the nerf?), is gonna hit hard no matter how you slice it.

As a hunter though, you have what. Tranq for the enrage. Scatter, frost trap, the disengage snare if you take it, deterrence, readiness to reset and concussive snare. Using the CC you're given would help tremendously in these situations.

If they take brostorm, why aren't you using a bird for disarm, and if not that, why not the spider for the extra root? I'm no hunter expert, but is it just assumed that you'll be using a spirit beast or other exotic at all times? Being able to see the comp before you walk out the gate lets you plan ahead for that warrior one shot macro, and pet choice, it would seem to me, would also factor into that decision making process.

Pet was feared the whole time so it wouldn't matter. He trinketed my scatter shot before my freezing trap got him, dragon roar then mortal strike in that stun period, deterrence then I disengaged and all he had to do was charge and execute me once deterrence expired.
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90 Human Monk
5880
Dragon's Roar hit (yes hit) me for 288,864 yesterday.

I'm hoping as I get better gear that dmg will go down significantly...but who am I kidding.


Warrior dmg is far too high, my paladin is in pretty good gear.
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90 Human Warrior
7825
Dragon's Roar hit (yes hit) me for 288,864 yesterday.

I'm hoping as I get better gear that dmg will go down significantly...but who am I kidding.
Wow you got hit (as in a not-crit) from Dragon's Roar?

Please tell me more.
Man, imagine if it crit. That'd be ridiculous!
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90 Goblin Warlock
13090
Blizzard thinks Warrior damage is balanced because their counter class Mages are also OP.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
11505

Wow you got hit (as in a not-crit) from Dragon's Roar?

Please tell me more.
Man, imagine if it crit. That'd be ridiculous!


Some would say... it's ludicrous!
Edited by Sphyx on 11/28/2012 9:50 PM PST
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90 Draenei Hunter
15350
Dragons roar crits always...
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90 Pandaren Monk
13265
11/28/2012 09:49 PMPosted by Limpstick
Blizzard thinks Warrior damage is balanced because their counter class Mages are also OP.
Edited by Stuffed on 11/29/2012 4:22 AM PST
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90 Troll Hunter
15045
11/28/2012 04:23 PMPosted by Affx
Any spec with CC less than 1m, or multiple CCs hardcounters BM hunters right now.

I don't think you know what hardcounter means :P


CC the pet negates over half the damage/utility
CC the hunter negates over half the damage/utility

As long as you are not a spec saddled with a CD based CC only (i.e. hunters), you will screw over BM hunters big time. And if you are smart, you will do so during BW, which is the only means hunters previously had of guaranteeing burst delivery.

Since Stampede was hotfixed, you don't even really need to AOE CC the Stampede. It doesn't do a whole lot of damage up front anymore.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
13555


Go watch the Reinhart video that just went up. PvP weapons now have about 3 times the PvP power they did before 5.1 So a 109k Mortal Strike isn't unlikely now.


But MS hitting for the same as Execute still doesn't make sense.

Buff Execute!
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90 Human Warrior
11020
Blizzard's official explanation is that warrior burst is not overpowered because it is okay to global someone as punishment for not kiting the warrior permanently.

You can see how this is an example of bad mechanics from both sides. Either the warrior has no uptime - not fun for him - or he instantly kills what he touches - not fun for the recipient. Lose/lose design philosophy.


^ This. So much this. I would have rather the 20% damage been taken off avatar then nerf it like they did. The reason warriors are either OP or UP and never anything in between is because our uptime has so much variance depending on the situation.

How do you balance warrior damage when a warrior could be fighting a frost mage without dispels and the next fight could be fighting a dk with dispels. Answer: you don't.

One of the best success they've had with melee classes are ferals cause their uptime is so normalized around their own abilities because they can shift roots and snares.
Edited by Faust on 11/29/2012 7:45 AM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
14110
Blizzard's official explanation is that warrior burst is not overpowered because it is okay to global someone as punishment for not kiting the warrior permanently.

You can see how this is an example of bad mechanics from both sides. Either the warrior has no uptime - not fun for him - or he instantly kills what he touches - not fun for the recipient. Lose/lose design philosophy.


^ This. So much this. I would have rather the 20% damage been taken off avatar then nerf it like they did. The reason warriors are either OP or UP and never anything in between is because our uptime has so much variance depending on the situation.

How do you balance warrior damage when a warrior could be fighting a frost mage without dispels and the next fight could be fighting a dk with dispels. Answer: you don't.

One of the best success they've had with melee classes are ferals cause their uptime is so normalized around their own abilities because they can shift roots and snares.


I think you answered your own question nicely. The problem with the current warrior design can really be traced back to excessive CC. That requires them to have excessive burst for those brief moments when they aren't CC'd by the mage. That requires excessive burst healing. It all spirals.

Time to kill was at a nice place in beta when base resilience was 50% instead of 40%. The problem though was that healing was substantially overtuned for that level of resilience. We all (like almost unanimously) suggested that Blizzard nerf healing in PvP by having it unaffected by Power or reduced by the recipient's resilience.

Blizzard assured us that PvP Power affecting healing was totally fine. But 50% resilience was considered way too high - not because of DPS v. DPS interaction, but because healers couldn't be killed. They're just unable to connect the dots on this one. So overpowered healing remained, and resilience was nerfed.

Now they've finally acknowledged that PvP Power shouldn't have buffed healing, but instead of undoing their original error, they left it in place and added a banded fix by flat-reducing heals in PvP. Which would be fine (if unnecessarily convoluted and confusing to beginners), except that guy at Blizzard who wants WoW PvP to be a bad version of an FPS game always seems to get his way in the end - so now we've buffed player damage (right after the healing nerf).

Greg has completely forgotten that his original rationale for base resilience was so that players in PvE gear wouldn't get insta-gibbed when they stepped into a BG. Thanks to the overpowered PvP weapons, they do. (In fact, so do people with PvP gear!)

Also note that his rationale for making the PvP weapons overpowered had nothing to do with whether it would be good for gameplay. It was so that arena players would choose PvP weapons over PvE weapons. It's like the question of whether people die too fast isn't even on the table or in their minds.

Drives me crazy.
Edited by Ashin on 11/29/2012 2:46 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
7875
Conser, at the low MMR levels you guys are glass cannons with a rogue on your team. Your burst cds+trinket+prey on the weak+TotT inside a smokebomb with the malev weap(s) and about 45-50% pvp power is pretty awesome burst. Last night me and my DK buddy managed to burn down a druid with treeform popped in about 4 seconds.

I say at low MMR because the druid's warrior partner was dumb enough to trinket the sap and zerker rage the gouge, which was shivved off and thrown into a blind. I don't suspect that would happen at higher level play.
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90 Human Warrior
7825
11/28/2012 11:19 PMPosted by Mezasu
Dragons roar crits always...
Shh, you're gonna ruin it! >:(
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