Solar Beam-1; Shaman-0

90 Draenei Shaman
7730
11/29/2012 12:18 PMPosted by Gistwiki
Quite a bit actually. Both as resto and elem.


doesnt sound like it.

11/29/2012 12:18 PMPosted by Gistwiki
And no, they won't.


yes they will

repent/IS/scatter are great ways to interrupt casts. if you havent seen a warrior go full mongoloid and fear just to interrupt a cast after he misses pummel theres no hope for you.

but with blind, rogues will cheap-->kidney--->garrote--->blind, restealth, sap, (the target is now off stun and silence DR) Cheap---> Kidney. for maximum awesomeness.

11/29/2012 12:18 PMPosted by Gistwiki
All I've ever seen holy priests do in any setting of ranked pvp is disintegrate like a wet paper bag because they can't deal with focus, and there's little-no reason not to focus them.


you havent seen jamils play holy priest then.

11/29/2012 12:18 PMPosted by Gistwiki
Back to the topic - Solar Beam is a pain in the !@#, and now works quite well on shaman of all flavors >.>


some would say, toowell on shamans. I, would say, that solar beam is much, much too strong against us, and that we are the only class with nothing to do and no way to counter it.
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90 Undead Warlock
3910
11/29/2012 12:18 PMPosted by Gistwiki
Explain how. All I've ever seen holy priests do in any setting of ranked pvp is disintegrate like a wet paper bag because they can't deal with focus, and there's little-no reason not to focus them.


They can heal while They dead I guess... lol
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
11/29/2012 12:26 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
you havent seen jamils play holy priest then.


That's like saying Hunters were fine in pvp in Cata because of how well Jungyup played with one, or that Elemental didn't need any pvp love in Cata because Drainergodx was R1 as Elemental in Cata. It's a cop out of an answer -.-

I get that it can be done if the player's on the level (I've always said that about pretty much everything in this game.) I want to know how it's supposed to work in a general sense though.

Edit: Could you spell the name out properly? There's no level 90 named Jamils as you spelled it on either US or EU servers, and google revealed nothin for me.

11/29/2012 12:26 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
repent/IS/scatter are great ways to interrupt casts.


But that has little to no relevance to whether or not they'll be using them to CC, which is what you'd use SW:D to cancel them with anyways, which is the point I was responding to.

11/29/2012 12:26 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
if you havent seen a warrior go full mongoloid and fear just to interrupt a cast after he misses pummel theres no hope for you.


I have. It's fun to juke pummel -> juke disrupting shout -> tremor fear and watch him rage :<

It's less fun when he crits you for 150k+ heroic strikes on nearly 65% resil >.>

11/29/2012 12:26 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
but with blind, rogues will cheap-->kidney--->garrote--->blind, restealth, sap, (the target is now off stun and silence DR) Cheap---> Kidney. for maximum awesomeness.


In a 1v1 situation it's absolutely... "awesome" (not the word I'd use for it, but I don't play a rogue so I don't really think it's all that awesome when he starts that up and you don't have a trinket heh.) In a group (specifically RBG, where there are other healers to pick him up) setting you're not going to want to leave him in the blind like that if you're going for a kill on him though.

11/29/2012 12:26 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
and that we are the only class with nothing to do and no way to counter it.


What do priests or monks do if they get caught rooted/vortex'd in a solar beam again? I'd really like to know about monks though. I haven't played one beyond level 10 yet so I don't have much of a grasp on what they can do just yet.
Edited by Gistwiki on 11/29/2012 1:06 PM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
7730
11/29/2012 12:43 PMPosted by Gistwiki
What do priests or monks do if they get caught rooted/vortex'd in a solar beam again?


monks can roll on outta there.

priests cant deal with blanket silences but priests laugh at people who try and actually spell lock them.

oh, you locked me on pennace? eat a full fear.
oh, you locked me on mind control? watch me spam heals

It would be so much better if we at least had SLT or HTT in our elemental tree. we absolutely NEED to be able to SLT.

basically what it comes down to is, some healers have abilities to use while cc'd, some have abilities to use while silenced, some have abilities to use while spell locked, shamans have nothing in any situation.

I have. It's fun to juke pummel -> juke disrupting shout -> tremor fear and watch him rage :<


why on earth would you waste tremor. if i was a warrior and i was beating on a shaman, he jukes pummel, jukes disrupting shout, and then tremor totems IS, i would laugh my !@# off.

11/29/2012 12:43 PMPosted by Gistwiki
Edit: Could you spell the name out properly?

idk the exact spelling of his name.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/tichondrius/Jahmilli/simple

is his mage, he also has an enh shaman something along the lines of jahmills, he streams infrequently on twitch.

11/29/2012 12:43 PMPosted by Gistwiki
In a group (specifically RBG, where there are other healers to pick him up) setting you're not going to want to leave him in the blind like that if you're going for a kill on him though.


you absoultely want to leave him in the blind. you really have no clue what you are talking about.

you also then can sap to dr as well while cc'ing and/or killing another target, and then go back to the sapped target and finish off in a bomb at your liesure.

That's like saying Hunters were fine in pvp in Cata because of how well Jungyup played with one, or that Elemental didn't need any pvp love in Cata because Drainergodx was R1 as Elemental in Cata. It's a cop out of an answer -.-

I get that it can be done if the player's on the level (I've always said that about pretty much everything in this game.) I want to know how it's supposed to work in a general sense though.


Also there were plenty of 2200+ Holy priests in cataclysm & hunters were very fine in pvp in cata.

Elemental wasnt even terrible. there were several people who made it work, now just the person you named but i know Rockets on Sargeras made extremely top end duelist / gladiator all expac.
Edited by Jkspiritlink on 11/29/2012 7:08 PM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
11/29/2012 07:03 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
monks can roll on outta there.


I totally said while rooted in a solar beam, but ok ^.^

11/29/2012 07:03 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
why on earth would you waste tremor. if i was a warrior and i was beating on a shaman, he jukes pummel, jukes disrupting shout, and then tremor totems IS, i would laugh my !@# off.


1v1. You're not using it on anything else against a warrior solo. I duel a lot for !@#$s and giggles because the majority of the players on my server are absolutely terrible.

11/29/2012 07:03 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
you absoultely want to leave him in the blind. you really have no clue what you are talking about.


Maybe you're not understanding what I'm saying. RBG setting. The holy priest is your kill target. Why would you ever leave him in the blind beyond switching targets, which isn't a situation that'll be happening all that often against a holy priest anyways?

11/29/2012 07:03 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
you also then can sap to dr as well while cc'ing and/or killing another target, and then go back to the sapped target and finish off in a bomb at your liesure.


Yes. I know it works for switching targets. My overall point has been that there's little-no point in switching targets off of the holy priest, and as an extension of that being able to SW:D the blind serves little-no purpose when they aren't going to be switching off of you in the first place.

11/29/2012 07:03 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
hunters were very fine in pvp in cata.


Hunters arguably had the 3 of the worst ranged dps specs for pvp in cata. They were capable of doing well enough, but they were weak in comparison to just about everyone else.

Elemental wasnt even terrible. there were several people who made it work, now just the person you named but i know Rockets on Sargeras made extremely top end duelist / gladiator all expac.


This is like saying current Elemental is fine because Nuvooz is going to get glad this season (and we both know that that's a laughable assertion.) People can make weak specs work at pretty much any level, because in any setting skill will always be the final deciding factor. However, that doesn't make the spec any less weak in general.
Edited by Gistwiki on 11/29/2012 9:03 PM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
11/29/2012 07:03 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
basically what it comes down to is, some healers have abilities to use while cc'd, some have abilities to use while silenced, some have abilities to use while spell locked, shamans have nothing in any situation.


This needs to be your message, worded almost exactly like this. I have a hard time believing that the much maligned totem system was all that was keeping Resto propped up in pvp, but this in particular is a troubling aspect of the change.

11/29/2012 07:03 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
It would be so much better if we at least had SLT or HTT in our elemental tree.


This is a decent suggestion to alleviate that trouble, though I'm still not entirely convinced it's necessary. Note that it's not the "Elemental tree" though. It's Nature school currently & Fire is what you'e thinking of, and Fire doesn't make sense for either of them thematically. Perhaps moving one of them to the Frost school.
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90 Orc Shaman
11440
I've always felt that our heals should be under a "Water" (or frost) school, and lightning under Nature. That small change would have dramatic positive ramifications for elemental, and even to some degree resto.
Edited by Stierzorn on 11/29/2012 10:22 PM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
7730
11/29/2012 08:38 PMPosted by Gistwiki
Maybe you're not understanding what I'm saying. RBG setting. The holy priest is your kill target. Why would you ever leave him in the blind beyond switching targets, which isn't a situation that'll be happening all that often against a holy priest anyways?


11/29/2012 08:38 PMPosted by Gistwiki
Yes. I know it works for switching targets. My overall point has been that there's little-no point in switching targets off of the holy priest, and as an extension of that being able to SW:D the blind serves little-no purpose when they aren't going to be switching off of you in the first place.


if you dont know the value of hardswitching.... then i just dont know what to tell you.

ideally in rbgs, you focus one target, wait til all the healers switch hots and shields, then hard switch to something without full lifeblooms, sacred shield, earthshield, etc. etc. and kill in a smoke bomb.

only bad rbg teams tunnel endlessly into a target.

This is a decent suggestion to alleviate that trouble, though I'm still not entirely convinced it's necessary. Note that it's not the "Elemental tree" though. It's Nature school currently & Fire is what you'e thinking of, and Fire doesn't make sense for either of them thematically. Perhaps moving one of them to the Frost school.


I understand that its currently in our nature school. It would be much better if its in the elemental school, like elemental blast.

You can be locked out of fire, and use EB, you can be locked out of nature, and use EB, but if you get locked on EB, your locked out of both.

If you do get locked on EB, it pops up as "locked on elemental damage"

And thematically SLT being elemental would make perfect sense.

11/29/2012 08:38 PMPosted by Gistwiki
This is like saying current Elemental is fine because Nuvooz is going to get glad this season (and we both know that that's a laughable assertion.)


i highly doubt nuvoz will get glad as ele this season. he'll probably end up respeccing back to resto as the season closes and do exactly what hes done for the past couple seasons. resto.

11/29/2012 09:10 PMPosted by Gistwiki
I have a hard time believing that the much maligned totem system was all that was keeping Resto propped up in pvp


It actually was. The only redeeming aspect is that they also removed gag order.

If gag order was in the game still AND we had no totems while silenced, we would have instantly dropped out of all organized pvp.
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90 Pandaren Monk
3160
11/29/2012 08:38 PMPosted by Gistwiki
monks can roll on outta there.


I totally said while rooted in a solar beam, but ok ^.^



Tiger Lust breaks cc. So a monk just needs toTiger Lust and roll/torpedo out of the trap. If they torpedo, they also get healed for a very decent amount.

Ironically, the Shaman root breaker is a totem. Yet another example why this change was stupid.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12855
11/29/2012 11:51 AMPosted by Jkspiritlink
Can't shapeshift while silenced I thought?


can always shapeshift unless locked out of arcane tree.

Everyone forgets holy priests. Everyone! :(


no. we're still more vulnerable than holy priests...

SW:D blinds/repents/scatters/sheeps and can cast gaurdian spirit while stunned.

shaman nope.


actually, you have to glyph SW:D to do that. We don't have enough glyphs really. yes on GS with the desperatioin glyph, which we do take. But silence is silence, and Holy Lockouts just leave us with fear.

I am working in my Shaman. Good luck with the changes, it does feel a bit off.
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81 Orc Shaman
3130
11/29/2012 07:03 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
basically what it comes down to is, some healers have abilities to use while cc'd, some have abilities to use while silenced, some have abilities to use while spell locked, shamans have nothing in any situation.


Shamans can tremor while feared.

This and blood fear were the reason almost every team in the tournament had a lock and a shaman.

Blood fear is overpowered and shamans are the only healing class with any defense against it. In fact they have 2 with grounding.

This is why totems got nerfed, and why totemic restoration got nerfed. As to why nerf resto instead of locks? Probably because Bliz thinks resto will survive the totem nerf but a nerf to blood fear would destroy locks.

And, to get back on topic, I agree that Solar beam is overpowered. At least they nerfed it to 8 seconds.
Edited by Bipst on 11/30/2012 10:44 AM PST
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96 Pandaren Shaman
20430
Can't you just move out of the Solar Beam?
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90 Orc Shaman
11440
11/30/2012 11:05 AMPosted by Rude
Can't you just move out of the Solar Beam?


Not while rooted :P
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96 Pandaren Shaman
20430
11/30/2012 11:15 AMPosted by Stierzorn
Not while rooted :P

Wouldn't the logical solution be to either interrupt, grounding, or pre-windwalk the root cast?
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90 Orc Shaman
11440
To be clear, I typically find it to be an annoyance that is more preventable than a DF+Silence, but to play devil's advocate

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=102359
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96 Pandaren Shaman
20430
11/30/2012 11:36 AMPosted by Stierzorn
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=102359

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=32375
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90 Draenei Shaman
7730
11/30/2012 11:27 AMPosted by Rude
or pre-windwalk the root cast?


no.

anyone who says "well you should read the opponents mind and pre-emptively use cooldowns" is ridiculous.

If im a boomkin, and im casting entangling roots, and the shaman im casting on pre-windwalks the root cast do you know what i do?

stopmacro that entangling root cast.

kill the windwalk totem.

start casting entangling roots again

now the shaman COTE's the windwalk totem.

i stop casting again,

kill totem again.

cast entangling roots and beam.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7730
11/30/2012 10:41 AMPosted by Bipst
This and blood fear were the reason almost every team in the tournament had a lock and a shaman.


no every team was lock/shaman because every team that qualified PLAYED lock/shaman in cata.

tbh the #1 comp that should have won the blizz con tournament, that hard countered every other team in the tournament...

hpally/warrior/feral... kitty cleave.

theres no way Snutz's MLS would have lasted 5 seconds against kitty cleave.

but months ago when it was time to see which teams were going to china, kitty cleave stunk, and lock/shaman didnt. so lock shamans there were.
Edited by Jkspiritlink on 11/30/2012 12:08 PM PST
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96 Pandaren Shaman
20430
11/30/2012 12:04 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
anyone who says "well you should read the opponents mind and pre-emptively use cooldowns" is ridiculous.

Watching them cast an ability and instinctively using a spell (that is off the global, mind you) is reading their mind? It's call reaction.

11/30/2012 12:04 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
stopmacro that entangling root cast.

Have fun doing before the 1.5 second cast ends. Reacting to a reaction like that is very uncommon, and honestly, I don't think you're good enough to do it. Very few are.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7730
11/30/2012 12:23 PMPosted by Rude
Have fun doing before the 1.5 second cast ends. Reacting to a reaction like that is very uncommon, and honestly, I don't think you're good enough to do it. Very few are.


i think im very much good enough to do it.

not 100% of the time but the majority.

its not any bit different than casting a spell (any spell) at a warrior, him spell reflecting and stoppin the cast.

sure sometimes im not paying attention and i get the spell thrown back at me, but the vast majority of the time i am paying attention and i just hit my stopcast key bind and wait for the SR to drop, then go at it again.

same thing trying to get a hex on a resto druid.

you start casting, he sees that your casting and shapeshifts, so you be a smart shaman and stop the hex cast so it doesnt immune.
Edited by Jkspiritlink on 11/30/2012 12:32 PM PST
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