Solar Beam-1; Shaman-0

81 Orc Shaman
3130
This and blood fear were the reason almost every team in the tournament had a lock and a shaman.


no every team was lock/shaman because every team that qualified PLAYED lock/shaman in cata.

tbh the #1 comp that should have won the blizz con tournament, that hard countered every other team in the tournament...

hpally/warrior/feral... kitty cleave.

theres no way Snutz's MLS would have lasted 5 seconds against kitty cleave.

but months ago when it was time to see which teams were going to china, kitty cleave stunk, and lock/shaman didnt. so lock shamans there were.


I've heard this quite a bit, but honestly all teams had ample time to practice new strats. I dont believe these pros would just bring what they were comfortable with when they qualified if they wanted to win the tournament, especially since the game itself changed dramatically with the new expansion. Im sure they brought exactly what they thought had the best chance of winning, and the fact that they brought what they did speaks for itself.

Everyone thinks, including me at first, that the shaman nerfs came from out of left field, but the need for it was right in front of us the whole time. And to adapt shamans will just have to be more proactive about things just as rude is saying.

Shamans are nowhere near as forgiving as they were, but the great one's will still be great.
Edited by Bipst on 11/30/2012 12:56 PM PST
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100 Pandaren Shaman
22465
11/30/2012 12:30 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
its not any bit different than casting a spell (any spell) at a warrior, him spell reflecting and stoppin the cast.

It's basically the warrior's reaction and skill against the caster's. If the warrior is good, the caster won't have enough time to stop it- because the warrior waited literally until the last fraction of a second. If a shaman is good, he will do the same. Thanks for proving my point.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7730
11/30/2012 01:36 PMPosted by Rude
It's basically the warrior's reaction and skill against the caster's. If the warrior is good, the caster won't have enough time to stop it- because the warrior waited literally until the last fraction of a second. If a shaman is good, he will do the same. Thanks for proving my point.


you have no idea what your talking about....

11/30/2012 12:48 PMPosted by Bipst
I've heard this quite a bit, but honestly all teams had ample time to practice new strats. I dont believe these pros would just bring what they were comfortable with when they qualified if they wanted to win the tournament, especially since the game itself changed dramatically with the new expansion. Im sure they brought exactly what they thought had the best chance of winning, and the fact that they brought what they did speaks for itself.


No thats just not true.

Look at Team EG.

Talbadar/Cdew/Azael.

Rsham + Lock. Thats what they qualified as in Cata when Shadowplay was ridiculously strong and what they played in the tournament even though its incredibly gimp in MoP. Because thats what the team is. Cdew CAN play other healing classes, but he solidly made the choice to continue playing a weak, but comfortable comp.
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
11/30/2012 07:23 AMPosted by Jkspiritlink
And thematically SLT being elemental would make perfect sense.


Thematically SLT is calling upon the power of the 5th great spirit of the wowverse - The Spirit of the Wild, who/which embodies the essence of every living thing in the wowverse.

There is nothing that thematically belongs further in the nature tree than anything that has something to do with the Spirit of the Wild.

It'd WORK better in the Elemental tree. Of that I have no doubt. Thematically it belongs in the Nature tree in a way that very few abilities do.

11/30/2012 07:23 AMPosted by Jkspiritlink
i highly doubt nuvoz will get glad as ele this season.


He's about in range of it as it is. Whether or not it'll stay that way is up to debate. He'll probably go resto to make it a sure thing though, I agree.

11/30/2012 07:33 AMPosted by Shaima
Tiger Lust breaks cc.


Is it usable while silenced? Assuming it is judging by the description, but I'll ask to make sure.

11/30/2012 12:30 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
i think im very much good enough to do it.


Isn't it a "may the more skilled player win" kind of a deal in those types of situations though?
Edited by Gistwiki on 11/30/2012 8:27 PM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
7730
11/30/2012 08:26 PMPosted by Gistwiki
He's about in range of it as it is. Whether or not it'll stay that way is up to debate. He'll probably go resto to make it a sure thing though, I agree.


where you are currently means absolutely nothing.

the people who are getting glad this season arent even trying. theyre all at like 1k rating but 2600 MMR because of team hopping. im currently watching venruki, who willl absolutely get gladiator, play 3's at 1300 team rating.

i cant find novoz's armory but i very much doubt hes in glad range currently. im betting glad range is only like the top 4-5 teams at this point because of the sad state pvp is in, in general.

11/30/2012 08:26 PMPosted by Gistwiki
Isn't it a "may the more skilled player win" kind of a deal in those types of situations though?


in a perfect world yes. probably.

but latency screws that over horribly.

we've all been hit by CC or abilities with GT right next to us due to latency sucking, we've all had warrior alts get cycloned while having the spell reflect buff up.
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
11/30/2012 08:34 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
where you are currently means absolutely nothing.


Which is why I noted that it was very much up to debate whether or not he'd be able to maintain his current standing in his battlegroup.

11/30/2012 08:34 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
im betting glad range is only like the top 4-5 teams at this point because of the sad state pvp is in, in general.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/mannoroth/Novooz/simple

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/arena/ruin/3v3 - Tdot OGs is his team, listed as 5th there currently though I don't know how reliable that is (armory claims that post totem nerf the team has climbed from 11th to 5th, which seems a bit off.) The Resto druid on his team posted a thread on the shaman forums a few days back with ele ideas from a 2400 teammates perspective.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7199032382
Edited by Gistwiki on 11/30/2012 9:14 PM PST
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81 Orc Shaman
3130
No thats just not true.

Look at Team EG.

Talbadar/Cdew/Azael.

Rsham + Lock. Thats what they qualified as in Cata when Shadowplay was ridiculously strong and what they played in the tournament even though its incredibly gimp in MoP. Because thats what the team is. Cdew CAN play other healing classes, but he solidly made the choice to continue playing a weak, but comfortable comp.


With thousands of dollars on the line pros aren't going to go with "the weak but comfortable comp." Thats just not going to happen. They brought what they had before because it is still strong now at the highest level of play.

Say what you want to that, but you are not a pro and again what they brought speaks for itself.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7730
11/30/2012 08:44 PMPosted by Gistwiki
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/mannoroth/Novooz/simple


I dont think thats Novoz.

Novoz plays an orc shaman on Tich. He moved there with everyone else of merit at the start of the expac.

also the armory says his personal highest is 2400 in 3's and 1500 in 5's. and i know for a fact that several of novoz's gladiator titles came from 2700+ 5's teams.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/tichondrius/Novoz/simple

this is who i think is the "real" novoz. he's at least got a novoz' level rbg rating and some high level pvp history.

just realized both of those novoz are in very similar guild names, possibly just alts of his?

And 11th place wont get you glad, and being anywhere near glad right now, wont get you glad. no one is actively playing for rank at this point.

12/01/2012 05:52 AMPosted by Bipst
They brought what they had before because it is still strong now at the highest level of play.


Dear god no. Shadowplay is crud. its so ridiculously gimped its only a tribute to their skill that they took as high as 4th place.

And like i say, if someone had brought a kitty cleave, would have demolished everything and everyone.

Team EG brough Shadowplay because thats what Team EG is.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7730
11/30/2012 12:48 PMPosted by Bipst
Shamans are nowhere near as forgiving as they were, but the great one's will still be great.


cdew will still be a champ.

but he will be a nerfed champ.
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100 Pandaren Shaman
22465
11/30/2012 07:17 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
you have no idea what your talking about....

Oh? You're the one that looks flustered to me.
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90 Goblin Shaman
6530
JIM derailing threads since forever.
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
12/01/2012 06:38 AMPosted by Jkspiritlink
just realized both of those novoz are in very similar guild names, possibly just alts of his?


Likely.

12/01/2012 06:38 AMPosted by Jkspiritlink
And 11th place wont get you glad,


11th listed there is the previous weeks ranking. Current ranking is 5th, which you'll see if you look at the ladder or the team specifically.

12/01/2012 06:38 AMPosted by Jkspiritlink
and being anywhere near glad right now, wont get you glad. no one is actively playing for rank at this point.


I already agreed with this point, and then pointed out that I had already agreed with this point when you brought it up. Why are you bringing it up again? -.-
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90 Draenei Shaman
7730
12/01/2012 11:54 AMPosted by Gistwiki
Why are you bringing it up again? -.-


because if we both agreed that current placement means nothing, why did you even bring up novoz to start with?

12/01/2012 08:14 AMPosted by Rude
Oh? You're the one that looks flustered to me.


flustered, but i'd rather be flustered, than having no idea what im talking about... pve'ers... sigh...

JIM derailing threads since forever.


its my thread ! I honestly made this hoping to get a discussion on what to do about solar beam, and how it is probably the single greatest counter to shamans currently. no other spell hits us as hard as this one ability.

i'd rather be stunned or even spell locked than just sitting in a (possibly) 10second blanket silence.

imo, solar beam needs to dr with itself in some way, it last 10 seconds and if you stand in it the full 10seconds you are blanketed for 10 seconds...

thats just not right.

give it the Symbiosis-Solar-beam treatment and make it last 4seconds.

Or make it apply a stacking debuff over 4-6seconds, 1 stack every second and when it reaches max (4-6 depending on what is a "fair" amount of time silenced) stacks, you are immune to solar beam's effect.

i never realized what a pain solar beam was until they said "no more grounding while in it, nor windwalker totem, nor healing tide, nor SLT, nor healing stream, nor capacitor...
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
12/01/2012 02:32 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
because if we both agreed that current placement means nothing, why did you even bring up novoz to start with?


As part of an example to show how ridiculous I believed the argument that any spec is fine just because a very very few (relative to other specs) are able to do well with it (I used to hold that particular belief myself, and over time realized that I was being stupid.) The following conversation on that topic went as thus:

- You stated that you didn't believe the situations I brought up were comparable, stated why, and proceeded to go off on a tangent about Novoz.

- I stated that I disagreed and thought the situations were comparable, stated why, and proceeded to follow you off on your tangent about Novoz.

- You didn't respond to my disagreement, and continued the tangent about Novoz.

- I took your silence as an agreement to disagree, and continued following the tangent.

- After finding that we generally agree about the tangent itself, here we are.
Edited by Gistwiki on 12/1/2012 3:43 PM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
3910
u guys should make out.
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100 Pandaren Shaman
22465
12/01/2012 02:32 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
flustered, but i'd rather be flustered, than having no idea what im talking about... pve'ers... sigh...

That's fine. If you want to blame my PvE play and nerfs to the class as to why you'll never get glad, that's fine.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7730
12/01/2012 05:50 PMPosted by Rude
That's fine. If you want to blame my PvE play and nerfs to the class as to why you'll never get glad, that's fine.


I never blamed your pve on why i wont get glad.

might as well blame my pvp nerfs on why youll never be top parse on WoL

also you definitely do not want me to bring up the parses you've logged :)
Edited by Jkspiritlink on 12/1/2012 8:12 PM PST
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100 Pandaren Shaman
22465
12/01/2012 08:08 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
also you definitely do not want me to bring up the parses you've logged :)

Oh? Bring it.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7730
68% of enhancement shamans who logged parses of heroic wind lord did better than you.
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100 Pandaren Shaman
22465
12/01/2012 08:33 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
68% of enhancement shamans who logged parses of heroic wind lord did better than you.

Were they interrupting?
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