Are X.1 Patches getting worse?

90 Human Warlock
2335
12/04/2012 12:26 PMPosted by Crowlight
And now many players, myself included, feel that the raids have become to short. I could see One raid per x-pac having the length of Ulduar, ICC, Naxx, Kara.


I think there's a problem about investment, though. If Blizzard puts a lot of resources into building a raid that's going to be 10+ unique bosses, new assets, big setpieces, everything that people love, it cuts back on the rest of the bandwidth they have for creating content overall.

If you look at Wrath as a total picture, Ulduar was the big killer app raid they were designing for launch (later pushed to 3.1). Naxxramas just needed the numbers tweaked, and Eye of Eternity and Obsidian Sanctum, by virtue of being lair raids, didn't require nearly as many resources. Crusader's Coliseum was effectively a lair raid because it had two rooms, and they got a LOT of traction out of those assets because they used exactly the same space for a 5-man and a questing zone. ICC was the other big resource expenditure for the expansion's endgame, and they also re-used the hell out of it with the three ICC 5-mans.

The point I'm getting to here is that if you front-load an expansion with your big killer app raids, those raids become irrelevant when you come to another tier of raiding. If what the playerbase wants is a long-form (10+ bosses) kind of raid, Blizzard needs to figure out how to make that raid last a long time in order for it to be worth a big investment of resources.

Imagine if they could use iLvl-throttling (the mechanism that scales your power in Challenge Modes) to turn old raids into challenging content. The only trick then is figuring out how to reward people for doing that content IN ADDITION TO the new content they put out.


The bold part is what I would like to see. I have never raided in WoW before, use to in a different mmo. But what I have been wanting to do is to do the old raids again, however at the original difficulty. This "throttling" would really help with that, I don't want to "steam roll" through the old raids. Yes Blizzard would need to make a reason as to why should someone do older content at that difficulty other than for fun. I would do it just for fun though.
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90 Human Mage
14510
Blizzard said they were planning to gives us content faster. That doesn't mean they have to introduce a new raid with each patch. This time it was a new faction with a set of dailies, new pets, some old raids tuned to be soloable and the Brawler's Guild. Maybe next patch will have a new raid, some new heroics but no new factions or pets.

New content is not the same as new raids or dungeons.
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94 Orc Death Knight
13490
12/03/2012 05:43 PMPosted by Valdwarf
A simple sweep of your armory shows there's still plenty for you to do.


That is irrelevant. OP has a great point. Onyxia, Black Temple, Ulduar!! Those are VERY difficult x.1s to follow I understand.

No real epic raids this patch.

EDIT: a 5.0.X would have seemed more appropriate I agree with OP on that.


OP has no point. Blizzard has said they're going to do smaller patches, this does not mean changing their patch naming system to suit your frivolous needs.

12/03/2012 05:36 PMPosted by Brinju
because we werent already bashing our heads against the wall doing the 40 odd availible each day


If you were doing all the dailies every day, then you reached exalted with ALL factions weeks ago and you have no dailies left to do (except the new ones). Hell, if you did dailies every other day you'd be exalted with all of the factions now.

12/03/2012 05:36 PMPosted by Brinju
Oh yeah we get the brawler's guild... which we have to wait for until the people who have over 9 million gold (or buy of of chinise gold farmers) are finished with i


Yeah, cause 40k gold or less is sure the same as 9 million gold.

You got a patch much faster than previous x.1 patches with the expressed purpose of being smaller than previous patch cycles and amounts of content. You got a brand new daily quest hub, new scenarios, some updates to pet battles, changes to old raid content (both access, soloability, and new pet rewards), along with a smattering of balance changes and bug fixes. It's a small patch. They said it would be a small patch but much faster than normal patches. Why are you surprised? Faster patches with less content (same amount of overall content or more) is far better. Stop whining, just stop whining.
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Community Manager
You forgot to mention those patches took months(I think ulduar was 5 month after Wrath launch) where as 5.1 was release in 2 months time.

This was never meant to be a raid teir especially considering most people have not even downed most of the normal/heroic bosses.


Yeah, the main difference is really timing. In our quest to provide content faster we've been shaking up the patch cycles and how we approach our content roll out through the life of an expansion. Not wanting to speak too soon, but it looks like the cadence of this expansion is a lot closer to what we've been promising for years. It makes sense to me that if most people are not progressed through the initial content that the first x.1 patch (if it's going to arrive as quickly as 5.1 did) doesn't include an additional tier. And if that then means there are regular content releases thereafter... I don't know, at least for as much time I have to play and as progressed as I am, it sounds pretty good to me.
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Community Manager
Let's look at these patches you refer to a little closer:
The game was released November of 2004.
Patch 1.1 was actually the release patch. It came with Molten Core and Onyxia's lair.
1.6 was the first raid content added (BWL) in July 2005. The 4 prior added a couple of 5 mans and the BGs and honor system. (1.2, 1.3, 1.4 and 1.5)
1.7 released ZG in September 2005. It also added AB for PvPers.
1.8 (October) released the green dragon storyline and the start of the SIlithus buildup to...
1.9 (January 2006) released the AQs
1.11 (June 2006) Naxx (1.10 just added the dungeon set 2 upgrades, weather)

Yeah, not a lot of actual content upgrades, and the first raid upgrade was almost 9 months after launch (granted, leveling was still happening a lot during that time). Then it was only 2 months for the next, 4 months, 6 months, then a whopping 6 more months to....

2.0.3 January 2007 - BURNING CRUSADE RELEASED!
-Came with all the T4, T5, and MH already in the game)
2.1 May 2007 - BT released. Nothing in between (that's 5 months, for those counting)
2.2 September - voice chat (cause that works well)
2.3 November - ZA released! After 6 MORE months, a 10 man raid was added!
2.4 March 2008 - Sunwell! Only 4 months this time, and a massive content patch of a new questing area, new 5 man, new raid, etc etc.
This is all we have for 8 months until
3.0.2 in October for the November release of WRATH!!!!! Then it's
3.1 April 2009, a scant 6 months after Wrath, we get our first content patch!
3.2 August - crusader coliseum (4 months for those keeping track)
3.2.2 September - as a special event for the anniversary, they retune Onyxia to level 80.
3.3 December (looking at 4 months since the rush coliseum, but 8 months since Ulduar) we get ICC. Then all the way too....
4.0.1 the CATACLYSM PATCH... in OCTOBER 2010! A Whopping 10 months after ICC released, we finally have the new xpac. The only thing to tide us over there? A small content patch adding the Ruby Sanctum, a single boss fight.

So... i think that releasing something like this only 2 months in, not too shabby considering what we've had in the past.


lul

Thanks for that. And the memories (painful and otherwise).
Edited by Bashiok on 12/4/2012 12:43 PM PST
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100 Orc Shaman
14570
Blizzard's taking a page from their original playbook, and a playbook that's worked well for RIFT: Smaller, more frequent patches. All patches are named, but this one isn't being treated "major" in that it doesn't have a video trailer or anything.

But still, the patch does have some new content that isn't that light:

- New daily hub and faction for each side, along with PVP objectives to promote some good unclean world PVP.
- At least two new scenarios (I've done one with Vol'jin and one that's a defense of the Horde base, which I got no explanation for)
- A quest line which advances the story
- Brawler's Guild (which we'll all get invites to soon enough)

And of course a bunch of assorted changes for balance and all.

We're just a couple months in. I'd love to see a lot of patches released frequently with a smattering of content like this, than have just a couple new dungeons or a new raid to run repeatedly for months. Look at the time it took to release prior patches:

1.1: November '04 (Game's release)
1.2: December '04 (only included Maraudon, Gurubashi Arena event, and Feast of Great-Winter event)
2.0: January '07
2.1: May '07 (4 months)
3.0: November '08
3.1: April '09 (5 months)
4.0: December '10
4.1: April '10 (4 months)

It took four months or longer for each to show up. So we get one at two months in with a bit of content (more than 1.2 or 4.1, realistically), and you're upset? There's some rumors that 5.2 will include a raid as well as other stuff, and on this schedule will be in 2-3 months... meaning the first additional raid will hit 4-5 months in, which is completely on schedule with prior expansions.
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90 Undead Priest
6845
TBH I wouldnt mind at all if this was a minor patch like 4.0.7 or something but Blizzard are treating it like a Major content patch despite the fact it only contains minor content.


So the number is what bothers you? That seems rather trivial. Blizzard isn't treating this like a really major patch anyway, that's why there's no cinematic. We're two months into the expansion, know what we normally get at this point? Nothing. I don't understand the complaints.


Pretty much that. Endless spring is out less than a month. The flavor should not be gone yet. As well as the gear.
Edited by Samurice on 12/4/2012 12:47 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
13945
12/03/2012 05:39 PMPosted by Valdwarf
These are very good points not going to lie. I like MoP, but past x.1's were definitely more EPIC.

Epic is subjective. The Alliance fleet landing on the shores of Krasarang definitely qualifies as epic for me.
Edited by Taelen on 12/4/2012 12:47 PM PST
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100 Orc Shaman
14570
12/04/2012 12:41 PMPosted by Bashiok
Yeah, the main difference is really timing. In our quest to provide content faster we've been shaking up the patch cycles and how we approach our content roll out through the life of an expansion. Not wanting to speak too soon, but it looks like the cadence of this expansion is a lot closer to what we've been promising for years. It makes sense to me that if most people are not progressed through the initial content that the first x.1 patch (if it's going to arrive as quickly as 5.1 did) doesn't include an additional tier. And if that then means there are regular content releases thereafter... I don't know, at least for as much time I have to play and as progressed as I am, it sounds pretty good to me.


Didn't the second and third raids just open up a few weeks ago? Heck, my guild is just getting organized for the first one (hey, we're mostly casual players, and the holidays happened), it'll be a while yet before we think about clearing three raids. I can't imagine anyone other than the hardcore raiders having completed all three already.
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90 Draenei Paladin
13600
Not every patch is going to be a raid.

Raids aren't only thing that makes something major or a patch.

I'm really sick of seeing forums covered by qqing about no raids no random.

Guess what there is more outside of game than just raids.
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90 Pandaren Priest
12280
I didnt like the new faction daily quests =( , the others were fine.
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90 Human Monk
10330
12/03/2012 05:43 PMPosted by Valdwarf
A simple sweep of your armory shows there's still plenty for you to do.


That is irrelevant. OP has a great point. Onyxia, Black Temple, Ulduar!! Those are VERY difficult x.1s to follow I understand.

No real epic raids this patch.

EDIT: a 5.0.X would have seemed more appropriate I agree with OP on that.


Fun Fact: BT was not accessed for quite awhile after its release. Even top end guilds were stuck on Keal / Vashj.

Also, the epic part of this patch is the development between the horde-Alliance storyline in krasarang. This is supposed to be the main story of the expansion, but has seen very limited exposure until now (Jade Forest, minor Kun-lai). So far, I am absolutely loving the storyline, the epic battles, the world pvp, and even the dailies.
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100 Human Paladin
9290
I wonder if content patches are based off the number of level 90's that are current and the amount of content they have completed?
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90 Goblin Hunter
11845
Let's look at these patches you refer to a little closer:
The game was released November of 2004.
Patch 1.1 was actually the release patch. It came with Molten Core and Onyxia's lair.
1.6 was the first raid content added (BWL) in July 2005. The 4 prior added a couple of 5 mans and the BGs and honor system. (1.2, 1.3, 1.4 and 1.5)
1.7 released ZG in September 2005. It also added AB for PvPers.
1.8 (October) released the green dragon storyline and the start of the SIlithus buildup to...
1.9 (January 2006) released the AQs
1.11 (June 2006) Naxx (1.10 just added the dungeon set 2 upgrades, weather)

Yeah, not a lot of actual content upgrades, and the first raid upgrade was almost 9 months after launch (granted, leveling was still happening a lot during that time). Then it was only 2 months for the next, 4 months, 6 months, then a whopping 6 more months to....

2.0.3 January 2007 - BURNING CRUSADE RELEASED!
-Came with all the T4, T5, and MH already in the game)
2.1 May 2007 - BT released. Nothing in between (that's 5 months, for those counting)
2.2 September - voice chat (cause that works well)
2.3 November - ZA released! After 6 MORE months, a 10 man raid was added!
2.4 March 2008 - Sunwell! Only 4 months this time, and a massive content patch of a new questing area, new 5 man, new raid, etc etc.
This is all we have for 8 months until
3.0.2 in October for the November release of WRATH!!!!! Then it's
3.1 April 2009, a scant 6 months after Wrath, we get our first content patch!
3.2 August - crusader coliseum (4 months for those keeping track)
3.2.2 September - as a special event for the anniversary, they retune Onyxia to level 80.
3.3 December (looking at 4 months since the rush coliseum, but 8 months since Ulduar) we get ICC. Then all the way too....
4.0.1 the CATACLYSM PATCH... in OCTOBER 2010! A Whopping 10 months after ICC released, we finally have the new xpac. The only thing to tide us over there? A small content patch adding the Ruby Sanctum, a single boss fight.

So... i think that releasing something like this only 2 months in, not too shabby considering what we've had in the past.


This really blows a hole in the OPs argument. If you want to look at it in simplistic and honestly a not very accurate measure in patch numbers then yes he has a point, but if you look at it in terms of time frame of content release we can't really judge anything yet.

If they can keep this pace up and the next raid tier goes on the ptr in the next 1-2 months I will be pleased with the pacing.
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100 Goblin Shaman
9620
You forgot to mention those patches took months(I think ulduar was 5 month after Wrath launch) where as 5.1 was release in 2 months time.

This was never meant to be a raid teir especially considering most people have not even downed most of the normal/heroic bosses.


Yeah, the main difference is really timing. In our quest to provide content faster we've been shaking up the patch cycles and how we approach our content roll out through the life of an expansion. Not wanting to speak too soon, but it looks like the cadence of this expansion is a lot closer to what we've been promising for years. It makes sense to me that if most people are not progressed through the initial content that the first x.1 patch (if it's going to arrive as quickly as 5.1 did) doesn't include an additional tier. And if that then means there are regular content releases thereafter... I don't know, at least for as much time I have to play and as progressed as I am, it sounds pretty good to me.


I hope you guys keep things progressive, and don't end up giving people 540 ilvl valor loot. :|
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90 Human Warlock
7400
There are many guilds on my server that still cant down HOF...

I'm just happy as a casual/lfr guy I have 480 ilvl and get to experience all the content I'm paying for.
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90 Human Priest
12445
One thing that is important to note is the meaning behind patches and what was mentioned here the timing of such. Usually, the first batch of patches are class-balancing patches, and they usually don't go as x.1, however this patch introduces another part of the main story arch, which is why it is pegged as 5.1, instead of 5.0.7 or whatever.

As pointed out, time between content patches is what you are looking for, so expect 5.2 to contain a raid tier and drop in about 4-5 months.
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