Holy Priests Are Too Easy

100 Human Priest
17310
As the title suggests, I feel that the spec is too simple. This is coming from:

- Chakra stances have a really long cooldown. Giving us a shorter cooldown will encourage more dancing without any breakage to hps. We want to jump stances more.

- Circle of Healing is weak. But it's the same reason that Divine Star is suddenly weak: it's because only prayer of healing and prayer of mending got the 25% hotfix buff. We want these spells to be a relief when they come off cooldown, not a "oh circle came back up? well we're stacked up, so keep rolling prayer of healing because it's better hps"

- Serenity doesn't yield much of a buff after you place it on a target. I get what they are trying to do because it currently is a "place this on a guy and he'll get 25% increased heals for the next 2 spells" but it isn't working out that way because crit is random. If we're super paying attention, we could react to the first crit or something and minimize our overheal for the next spell, but realistically we're going to cast the same 2 spells after serenity regardless. If it was a reliable 25% increase to all healing, you could do some cool things with serendipity for a burst combo (and then ride out the bigger echo of light). Crit as a secondary stat is losing (a very slight) pp value because of this spell as well.

- We're not being rewarded for placing holy word: sanctuary on the ground. It's meter padding, but nothing critical when compared to any other similar ground effect.

- I would say red chakra is largely ignored, both pve and pvp, but I'll wait until 5.1 to say a blanket statement about it. The changes to it can make the stance very desirable for periods of low damage (or tight enrage timers), but we're still discouraged from using it because of the 30 second chakra cooldown.

The point of this isn't to compare Holy to Discipline. Nor is it to compare Holy to any other healing spec. Holy as a stand-alone spec is too easy, that's all I'm stating. I would prefer to change the spec without comparing it to discipline for each of the above points, so please treat it as it's own thing.
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90 Night Elf Priest
18545
CoH is great, what are you smoking. Everything else is spot on.
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100 Human Priest
17310
For Prayer of Healing I'm showing:
242,383 healing per cast; 103,576 hps; 17.95 healing per mana

For Circle of Healing I'm showing:
134,944 healing per cast; 96,107 hps; 14.06 healing per mana

For Glyphed Circle of Healing I'm showing:
161,932 healing per cast; 115,329 hps; 12.49 healing per mana

CoH was great. Then prayer of healing and prayer of mending got a band-aid buff, and now you should be trying to use prayer of healing instead of circle of healing if you can. If you glyph circle of healing and use it liberally, you're going to be draining your mana at a rate that's 69.6% of the efficiency to prayer of heal spam.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
8075
Your thread title is confusingg. It took me a minute to figure out how it even relates to your post. I'm guessing what you're trying to say is that Holy's healing style lacks variety. If that's the case then I would agree.

Personally I like the fact that Holy's healing style is very straight forward. When I'm on my Paladin I spend more time than I'd like watching my character, waiting for procs, or Holy Power, or CDs. Although Holy Priests have some of that as well, their healing style is more about picking the right heal at the right time, which is really refreshing.

That being said I do think the balance of a few of our spells is off. Mechanically we're in a really good spot (Minus Chakra, which has never made sense to me), but there are a number of spells that just aren't very good choices regardless of the circumstances. Among the worst would be Divine Star and HW: Sanctuary, which you mentioned.

Personally I think CoH is fine. It's a bit less efficient than I would like, but it fills a role that PoH never could (at least in it's current state). Even if PoH were to gain some kind of smart or partially smart mechanic I think CoH would still have it's uses. It would become the sort of "Flash Heal" of raid heals. What it lacks in efficiency it makes up for in speed.
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100 Human Priest
17310
I forgot to mention, the hps of circle of healing will fall behind prayer of healing under any sort of haste. The numbers^ above were from my toon and spreadsheet, and I'm avoiding haste like the plague.

Prayer of Healing is going to scale better with haste than Circle of Healing very quickly. Under power infusion, the above hps numbers go to poh:124,291; coh:115,329; coh/wglyph:138,395

This will either force us to glyph CoH later for the hps gain, or force us into rolling PoH as long as mana remains as something to be managed.

I guess my official stance is that circle of healing should be a substantial hps gain when used off cooldown. Right now, it's a situational spell that's used when 1.) we can't maximize a prayer of healing 2.) we need to move. It's okay to feel like its current implementation is fine, I'm just watching it fall by the wayside due to a band-aid change that didn't seem very well thought out.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
8075
Well it was a very similar situation with Priests in Cataclysm. They were crap in beta, crap when it went live, and then they hotfix buffed PoH as a band-aid. In later patches they toned down PoH and adjusted the spells that were crapping it. Hopefully they will get around to doing the same thing again.
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90 Human Priest
5565
I Agree with your statement. I enjoy healing as a holy priest simply because its easy and fun. I am surprised with how many horrible holy priest healers are out there. Every LFR run I do I usually see 1 or 2 holy priests scrapping the bottom with 20-30k hps(in both MSV and HOF), maybe for them it's not that "easy".

I like your comment about the stances. I find myself wanting to change stances during boss fights, occational I still do but it would be nice to be able to go back and forth.

An off topic question, you stated earlier that you avoid haste like the plague. Why is that? Everything I have read says that haste is still a priority stat for holy priests. I assume that your stacking mastery then.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12300
11/21/2012 05:37 AMPosted by Twistedmind
Prayer of Healing is going to scale better with haste than Circle of Healing very quickly. Under power infusion, the above hps numbers go to poh:124,291; coh:115,329; coh/wglyph:138,395


They scale exactly the same. 138395 is 120% of your original glyph'd CoH just like 124291 is 120% of your original PoH.

The larger issue you're overlooking is that Divine Insight increases the effective hps of PoH by potentially giving you a proc. Additionally, if you have any stacks of Serendipity at all, PoH is better.
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Circle of Healing is constantly in my top 3 heals, it's a very good spell.

Otherwise, I agree with your post. Chakra cooldown is too long, it should be more like 15 seconds. If I'm going to have to sacrifice half of my healing so my other half is on par with everyone else, then I at least shouldn't have to wait 30 seconds before I can switch.

I actually kinda like Chakra: Chastise, and the buffs coming in 5.1 are gonna be nice, but I won't ever use it on a raid boss unless the Chakra cooldown is reduced. Alternatively, Atonement could be given to Holy too, and then that could be an alternative to the other Chakras (the others would still be better from a healing standpoint, but at least going into Chastise won't be so punishing to your heals).
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100 Troll Priest
11965
Holy is right at its usual spot. Bottom of the ladder in PvE, and LOL @ PvP. Nobody howls on the forums though, because you can just spec Disc and fix it.

What do we get? Buffs to chakhra states which are the source of our problems to begin with.

Took them an ENTIRE EXPANSION to fix the clunkiness that was Lightwell. I'm hoping that Chakhra gets fixed (and by fixed, I mean removed) before 6.0 ships. It only took them two months to start dishing out buffs this time, which is downright amaziing considering they took 18 months to come to the same conclusion in cataclysm.
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90 Goblin Priest
12840
I don't really want to be stance dancing, but the way it is now pretty much locks you into a chakra state for the duration.

Perhaps what they could do is keep the 30sec cooldown, but have seperate cooldowns for each chakra state. So you could pop into chastise for 10 secs of smiting, then straight back to sanctuary when the damage starts going out, but you could only do that once every 30 secs.
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100 Troll Priest
11965
Chakhra Chastise is basically D.O.A. in any content outside of questing. Even with the buff, you aren't going to be pulling much more than what other healers will pull (which is to say, not much at all). It's great, just like having a shaman's lightning bolt, except without the mana positive properties, and without that nasty +15% buff to half of your toolkit that makes half of your toolkit kinda on par with some of the other healing classes.
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100 Undead Priest
9590
- Chakra stances have a really long cooldown. Giving us a shorter cooldown will encourage more dancing without any breakage to hps. We want to jump stances more.


This I would personally love. I find myself changing around quite a bit as is depending on encounter/situation, but in some cases that I want to switch, I cannot, because I have to be in, say, sanctuary for something coming up soon in the encounter, and chakra won't be off CD to switch back by then.

- Circle of Healing is weak. But it's the same reason that Divine Star is suddenly weak: it's because only prayer of healing and prayer of mending got the 25% hotfix buff. We want these spells to be a relief when they come off cooldown, not a "oh circle came back up? well we're stacked up, so keep rolling prayer of healing because it's better hps"


This I'll have to disagree with. Some situations, yes, it can feel rather weak, especially when considering you can hope for a (generously high) proc chance on a PoM when using PoH instead. But in others, I.E. big movement fights, it's a big relief. Could CoH use a small buff? Don't know. I just don't feel it's as needed as you make it out to be, though.

- [Serenity Argument] - to cut down on wall of quotes


This I'll agree with.

- We're not being rewarded for placing holy word: sanctuary on the ground. It's meter padding, but nothing critical when compared to any other similar ground effect.


This I can.. somewhat agree with. It's better in a 25m setting I'm sure. As is I kind of just.. set it down on a small clump of people when I have nothing to do with all my mana, because, well, I like the sparkles.

- I would say red chakra is largely ignored, both pve and pvp, but I'll wait until 5.1 to say a blanket statement about it. The changes to it can make the stance very desirable for periods of low damage (or tight enrage timers), but we're still discouraged from using it because of the 30 second chakra cooldown.


Personally, I'll use it at times. I normally start fights with it when I know they don't require immediate healing, to get some added damage in before switching to sanctuary for healing. I'd use it on, say, burning tendons on heroic spine in cata as well, but I don't believe there's a similar thing in the current raids. But overall it doesn't get too much use after I switch out of it initially after the start of the fight.

Alas, these are just my opinions on the subjects mentioned.
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100 Pandaren Priest
15715
I finally got a chance to switch to holy after disc hotfix a month ago.
I pulled about 42hps at the fight with Lei Shi. I have try my best but I was still at the bottom of healing meters.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/kxhq3x6r3a5tmzdr/sum/healingDone/?s=2833&e=3183#Shuk%C3%A8
Then I found I was ranked 23th in holy priest for this fight. WTF?

Holy is the weakest healing spec at the moment.
PoH really sucks although it sounds nice in math.
But it is nice when 5 people needs heal and close to each other.
There aren't really many situation like this.
This spell make priests' healing limited to group arrangements.
Once raider leaders mix ranged dps with melees in one group or more than one person dies during the fight, I have to avoid spamming PoH at those groups.
Fights, like, Sha of fear and Spiritbinder, are nightmares for priests.
There are always one or two ppl missing and PoH just sucks for these fights.

Chakra should get removed or just have less then 15 sec cooldown.
Both Serenity and Sanctuary should be buffed.

I used to believe holy 4P bonus will save the spec but it's not.
Yes, 4sec CoH provides us a little higher HPS and flexibility but it drains mana much faster than I though.
10% buff isn't really enough and it should be in next hotfix.
I don't see a reason taking a holy priest for 25 man fights. Shaman and monks just do a much better job than holy priests.
Edited by Shukè on 11/23/2012 8:22 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12945
I agree that the title of this thread is misleading and should be changed. It insinuates that Holy Priests healing style is very simple and puts out insane amounts of healing - which it doesn't. It's healing style is very simple (it lacks versatility and meaningful complexity) but their healing output is below average, which leads me to my next point....

Chakra

CHAKRA IS AN ABOMINATION and needs to be deleted!!!!

It's not needed and adds nothing to the spec. Remove Chakra and buff our AoE healing and single-target heals accordingly.

We would now have access to Serenity, Sanctuary, and Chastise whenever we wanted, all on a separate cooldown. With this change alone, Holy Priests are instantly more versatile and functional.

With that in mind, Serenity and Sanctuary could gain improvements to provide meaningful complexity to our healing style.

For instance,

Serenity would increase the haste on your next heal by X% in addition to granting/refreshing a Renew. We could throw Serenitys on tanks for fellow raid members followed by a CoH on the raid without the thoughts of "my CoH is now on a 10 sec cooldown instead of 8 and X% less effective because I'm in the "tank healing chakra," running through my head. We're the only healers who has to deal with this nonsense.

Casting Sanctuary could grant an AoE healing boost for X seconds. Standing in the Sanctuary could reduce our mana costs for spells by Y%.

Spirit of Redemption

Before the expansion, Lightwell and SoR were my biggest gripes. One was finally fixed which now leaves me to Spirit of Redemption. Turn this into an active spell! We need tools that really sets us apart from Disc other than..... Lightwell, CoH, Divine Hymn, and the joke that is improved Death (aka: Spirit of Redemption).

Turn SoR into a throughput survivability cooldown which would give us more flavor in PvE and possibly make Holy PvP viable (an issue Blizzard has continued to fail on since the beginning of competitive PvP).

Hymn of Hope

Why can't this spell have the power and utility along the lines of Mana Tide totem? Make this spell Holy only, reduce the cooldown to 3 min, make it raid wide, instant cast or have a cast time, and give Disc something interesting as compensation. Doing the following would again, give Holy something which sets it apart from Disc by making Hymns Holy's "thing."

Lack of Synergy

When I say lack of synergy I refer to our spells and our talents. Holy's bread and butter spells are Circle of Healing and Prayer of Mending but these spells don't really gain any form of benefits through our talents, nor do they grant any benefits other than...healing.

From talents which are meant to provide synergy (FD;CL & Divine Insight) we have to cast spells which aren't our bread and butter (Flash and Greater Heal) to gain additional benefits

My solution to this problem is very simple. Have CoH grant Serendipity which would then buff our Prayer of Healing or Greater Heal giving us synergy and versatility.

Holy PvP

Holy is a joke in PvP (even more so than Disc which is saying both a lot and perhaps very little, seeing that Disc is currently better than Holy yet Disc is still vastly underpowered) and has been a joke since...forever. That's all that needs to be said. Blizzard, fix it.

Quality of Life issue

Sanctuary - right now it's super annoying that Sanctuary's cooldown and duration are not identical. Back when we had our previous tier's 4 piece, Sanctuary's cooldown and duration were exactly the same. The reason why this is an issue is when trying to coordinate Sanctuary with heavy raid damage. You cast Sanctuary, heavy raid damage ensues, Sanctuary's effect ends and is on cooldown, heavy raid damage is still occurring and it simply feels awkward.

Now if Sanctuary was given my above suggestions where casting it would temporarily boost AoE healing or standing in it would grant reduce mana costs - this entire "issue" wouldn't be much of an issue.

Lightwell - And by Lightwell I really mean Lightspring. I'm fine with spending a glyph to make Lightwell fun and useful but now that it's such a staple of our healing style, if would by a nice quality of life change if there was a glyph that either A) had Lightwell hover near us or B) a minor glyph which would allow us to Lifegrip our well.
Edited by Senari on 11/23/2012 11:07 PM PST
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100 Human Priest
17310
Hey I'm back from vaycay. Sorry for the confusing title, I'm notorious for derping that stuff up (see http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794980143 ). I could have formatted the OP better with Ground Sanctuary and Circle of Healing math is off. The chakra mechanics are off.
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90 Tauren Priest
12030
From talents which are meant to provide synergy (FD;CL & Divine Insight) we have to cast spells which aren't our bread and butter (Flash and Greater Heal) to gain additional benefits


Divine Insight includes PoH, fyi. So it's not completely useless.

As for this thread...

I wouldn't call Holy EASY, per say. Straightforward, yes. Probably the biggest challenge the spec has is the mana management it requires.
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90 Undead Priest
9835
Circle of healing is going to beat out prayer of healing simply because it is a smart heal. Of course if there is enough damage going out where there will be 5 targets hit with PoH with little/no overhelaing then of course PoH will win out. However, I think the smart heal portion of CoH what makes it much better than face value.
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47 Blood Elf Rogue
19225
Holy Priests are still weak
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
11/27/2012 05:21 PMPosted by Fox
Holy Priests are still weak


Only the bad ones.
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