Vanguard.

Slowly but surely, many of you of our blue side have noticed the complete lack of trust and authority within the Alliance. This all has become manifest, first, after the coming of Dabu, and more specifically, at the location of where the two opposing factions clash in the grounds of Galleon. Whereas the Horde seemed to have improved in teamwork and organization, and especially in power, many of us on the other side have fallen into complete complacence.

Why have none of the Alliance guilds stepped up to the plate to challenge this power shift? Your spirit of competition has probably evaporated, but why continue to fall on your asses when "real" raid groups are wallowing in uncertainty? - there is no trust, no clarity in communication, just a fray of thoughts with people yelling, "do this, do that": the clueless leading the front to eventually lead the blind off the cliffs.

Paramount: you certainly have influence, but others do not respect you, therefore, you have no power.
Order of the Ancient: we're few in number, competitive, but still low key.
Drama N Mage Tears: low key.
Sixth AD: low key.
Timeless Endeavor: low key.
Brotherhood of Fire: low key.
Confidently Ignorant: low key.
the rest of you: I don't even know.

None of the guilds stand out to me except Paramount. This is saddening.
Change this?

If even a few members of some reliable guilds actively take charge and support each other, we might actually get somewhere. If any members of the guilds I've mentioned actually know what they're doing, then please, help supplement the right arguments and bat some sense into the rest who just "wing" everything.

Please, let's not get walked over for the 394873974893th time.
This is just a game, but compared to real life, we're equally mentally affected by the community that surrounds us.
Don't dismiss this fact.

Quit sitting in the !@#$ you made and actually try to get better. It's not hard to read.
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Nice speech, I guess.

1. I'm not sure exactly what you are expecting anyone to do, everyone is trying to keep their own raid teams together and get on with wow. That may sound simple enough but xpac beginnings are always difficult on guilds and many shrink or die off at this time. When a server has as few guilds downing bosses as mura does compared to so many other places they are right to focus inward.

2. I personally don't think anyone gives two craps if you know their guild or not. Of the guilds you named I know a couple have their own issues going on and don't need to be worrying about any other guild on lolmuradinprogress.

3. "Quit sitting in the !@#$ you made and actually try to get better. It's not hard to read." Take your own gd advice. You know I see para get crap for speaking their mind on forums and chat sometimes but the level of dbaggery right there was pretty interesting. Just because order got 1 kill up on para before dabu moved in doesn't make you guys big turds on campus so maybe you shouldn't try to act like it.

Way to make order go from looking like a decent guild to looking like just another elitist group of failhards in one fell swoop. Good Job!

Perhaps I'm oversensitive about it, but in essence you're wanting the alliance to rest on one guild and one personality...thinking it should be para because they are the closest...what you're asking for is a WWYOG and a Vao for the alliance. While it's fun to reminisce as someone who was horde during wwyog/vao's reign I can tell you that such a thing comes at a price. Do not try to turn para into a galv, because when no guild feels they can live up to the hero legend most of a server sets on one guild it stymies growth and progression as individuals. I'd already seen this on ally and had hoped something would stop it. All these guilds being quieter individual units is better for this server as a whole in the long run imo.
Edited by Feyranna on 11/23/2012 3:49 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
10730
Paramount: you certainly have influence, but others do not respect you, therefore, you have no power.
Order of the Ancient: we're few in number, competitive, but still low key.
Drama N Mage Tears: low key.
Sixth AD: low key.
Timeless Endeavor: low key.
Brotherhood of Fire: low key.
Confidently Ignorant: low key.
the rest of you: I don't even know.


Not entirely sure what you hope to accomplish with this.
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1. I'm not sure exactly what you are expecting anyone to do, everyone is trying to keep their own raid teams together and get on with wow. That may sound simple enough but xpac beginnings are always difficult on guilds and many shrink or die off at this time. When a server has as few guilds downing bosses as mura does compared to so many other places they are right to focus inward.

2. I personally don't think anyone gives two craps if you know their guild or not. Of the guilds you named I know a couple have their own issues going on and don't need to be worrying about any other guild on lolmuradinprogress.


My intention was not to attack other guilds' progress. My intention is to simply have guilds people KNOW to help influence others into working as an actual team - this is what I meant by "real" raid groups: when many guilds under one faction have to cooperate in order to achieve a goal.

3. "Quit sitting in the !@#$ you made and actually try to get better. It's not hard to read." Take your own gd advice. You know I see para get crap for speaking their mind on forums and chat sometimes but the level of dbaggery right there was pretty interesting. Just because order got 1 kill up on para before dabu moved in doesn't make you guys big turds on campus so maybe you shouldn't try to act like it.


You obviously don't know me. The last thing I try to do is show off, and if it comes off as arrogance, I'm quick to apologize. Since you don't know me, I'm sorry if I offended you or any other guilds on this list.

"Quit sitting in the !@#$ you made and actually try to get better. It's not hard to read."

This quote is for all the people who were here today at Galleon who were directing others to do the wrong thing. From the very beginning, this "rant" encompassed this issue. Many people simply do not take the time to learn how to tackle a problem: a prime example is LFR. I don't think I need to explain the mentality they impress off of the people who are actually trying. It's easy to tell who doesn't know the fight.

Way to make order go from looking like a decent guild to looking like just another elitist group of failhards in one fell swoop. Good Job!


I do not represent the entirety of this guild. This thread is of my opinion and my opinion alone. Please do not drag Order into this; I merely used the name as a reference.

Now that we've got that out of the way, I'll be blunt:
Feyranna, it's people like you I think about after wiping in LFR. You're quick to judge without investigating, taking shots at someone who is just trying to help; you either listen or you don't. Have you ever seen me troll anyone in trade? Troll anyone in these forums? Do I make these threads to attack others because I enjoy it? No, I don't post these things for myself.
You don't know me and I don't know you. Get to know me before you get sensitive.

11/23/2012 03:27 AMPosted by Feyranna
but in essence you're wanting the alliance to rest on one guild and one personality...thinking it should be para because they are the closest


No, you misunderstand. I want members from ANY guild, who are capable, to stop being quiet and take the reins to lead others who are lost or have no idea what they're doing. For a raid to be successful, someone must lead, sifting what is useless and keeping what is worth keeping - personalities are not shut out, but merely set aside for when the core issue has finally been addressed. A reliable set of voices supplementing each other is what a team should be; it is not a dictatorship.

I took these guild names from Nab's post - I'm not familiar with most of them.
Paramount is at the top because they're active in almost every debate that's related to this server. You can bet that they have a say in every matter; people know their name because of that key aspect.

11/23/2012 03:44 AMPosted by Scykotic
Not entirely sure what you hope to accomplish with this.


"low key"

I used this term to measure a guild's overall "presence". Pugs respond to presence. Presence is scrutinized and reputation is considered - if the reputation is good, then submission is granted to authority. In raid context, if people know you and know that you are a reliable source, they will listen. Pugs will listen.
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90 Human Warrior
17025
Stepping out of the shadows a moment to address this:

People listen to me even though most people outside of Paramount (And a majority inside of Paramount) do not respect me.

I make it a point to make a complete !@# out of myself to show how not-serious I am about this game, and still get some amount of work done.

I have friends in almost every other major guild on the server. Even some of the Horde guilds. (Voodoo. Dem. <3) When Reague of Regends was around, I wasn't a friend with any of them. And I didn't respect their guild as a whole. I respected their skill as players, but disliked them as players at the same time. It's less about the quality of your skill, and more about the quality of your players.

But that's the type of server that Muradin is.

When Dabu came over, I fell prey to my own hubris, in forgetting what Muradin was supposed to be for a lot of us. I turned into Scuttles for a little while.

11/23/2012 01:29 AMPosted by Bøyblunder
Slowly but surely, many of you of our blue side have noticed the complete lack of trust and authority within the Alliance. This all has become manifest, first, after the coming of Dabu, and more specifically, at the location of where the two opposing factions clash in the grounds of Galleon. Whereas the Horde seemed to have improved in teamwork and organization, and especially in power, many of us on the other side have fallen into complete complacence.


The Horde has always been superior in teamwork over the Alliance. The fact of the matter is, they never had a powerful playerbase as they did when Galv was around. They sat around in their internment camps, wallowing about the good old days while the Alliance stomped around in their big-boy boots. (Warcraft 2 reference) Once Dabu appeared, it was sort of like gaining a Warchief to them. By that time, the Horde finally stepped up and said as a collective: "Oh look, we are strong. Let's use that strength."

11/23/2012 01:29 AMPosted by Bøyblunder
Why have none of the Alliance guilds stepped up to the plate to challenge this power shift? Your spirit of competition has probably evaporated, but why continue to fall on your asses when "real" raid groups are wallowing in uncertainty? - there is no trust, no clarity in communication, just a fray of thoughts with people yelling, "do this, do that": the clueless leading the front to eventually lead the blind off the cliffs.


I mentioned that I had forgotten what Muradin was about earlier in the post, and this quote directly references it. The Spirit of Competition was never the point of what the guilds of Muradin were trying to accomplish. Sure, getting realm first anything would be amazing. I got Realm First Warrior, and it felt good to see my name broadcast across the server.

We play the game to enjoy it. We spend money on the game to enjoy it.

Muradin as a whole is a casual server. Casual. Not hardcore. Not semi-hardcore. Not serious. Casual. And I forgot that fact, so Paramount's image suffered for it.

But I can guarantee that a great majority of my guildmates don't care about what other's think of us. They might care when I make the guild look like a bunch of dicks, and counteract their efforts to make us look better, but they don't care what other's think.

11/23/2012 01:29 AMPosted by Bøyblunder
Your spirit of competition has probably evaporated


The boss kills haven't stopped coming. We've simply stopped posting that we've been killing bosses.

11/23/2012 01:29 AMPosted by Bøyblunder
Paramount: you certainly have influence, but others do not respect you, therefore, you have no power.


See my first comment of this post.

P.S. You forgot to mention Exiled Alliance in that list of guilds. (<3 you Ruine)

11/23/2012 01:29 AMPosted by Bøyblunder
If even a few members of some reliable guilds actively take charge and support each other, we might actually get somewhere. If any members of the guilds I've mentioned actually know what they're doing, then please, help supplement the right arguments and bat some sense into the rest who just "wing" everything.


It isn't our job to fix them. It's their job. If they don't want to be fixed, then there is literally nothing we can do.

11/23/2012 01:29 AMPosted by Bøyblunder
Quit sitting in the !@#$ you made and actually try to get better. It's not hard to read.


Posting a large thread on a forum that only a few guilds read, mostly to troll, isn't the audience that you're targeting. The audience you're targeting is out there, on the server.

*Edit*

To the shadoooowwsss!
Edited by Cimno on 11/23/2012 11:37 AM PST
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90 Undead Priest
8935


Perhaps I'm oversensitive about it, but in essence you're wanting the alliance to rest on one guild and one personality...thinking it should be para because they are the closest...what you're asking for is a WWYOG and a Vao for the alliance. While it's fun to reminisce as someone who was horde during wwyog/vao's reign I can tell you that such a thing comes at a price. Do not try to turn para into a galv, because when no guild feels they can live up to the hero legend most of a server sets on one guild it stymies growth and progression as individuals. I'd already seen this on ally and had hoped something would stop it. All these guilds being quieter individual units is better for this server as a whole in the long run imo.


Please dont ever compare Paramount to WWYOG!
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90 Worgen Hunter
16790
11/23/2012 08:25 AMPosted by Ravedoz
Please dont ever compare Paramount to WWYOG!

We don't want to be compared to some guild that you think so highly of because you refuse to remove your Ruby Shades. We just want to play this game because we enjoy killing bosses. We also don't play it to impress people.

Paramount: you certainly have influence, but others do not respect you, therefore, you have no power.

Again, we don't care what people think of us. However, you will find that we are nice people and there are many on this server that respect Paramount and it's players, despite what some may lead you to believe.
Edited by Tatianah on 11/23/2012 11:13 AM PST
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Thank you for your post, Cimno.

I guess I'll just.. /wry smile through this whole thing.

P.S. You forgot to mention Exiled Alliance in that list of guilds. (<3 you Ruine)


My apologies to many of the guilds I've left out.. Do not think I think the rest of you are not capable! There are many great players out there I haven't mentioned, with and without guilds; I know this for a fact.
Also, the list is not a hierarchy, lol. It's just a quick compilation of the guilds that came first to my head.

11/23/2012 11:09 AMPosted by Tatianah
Again, we don't care what people think of us. However, you will find that we are nice people and there are many on this server that respect Paramount and it's players, despite what some may lead you to believe.


My lizt! She malfunctionz!

On a serious note, I didn't mean to make it sound so harsh towards your guild. It was a subtle attempt, but I secretly wanted you guys to change your image so that more people would be able to see your good side, like I did. I like prodding people to take off their mask. Annoying and confusing, but interesting.
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90 Human Paladin
10360
You know, I was pretty excited to see a new guild on the server, Horde side has been lacking ever since Muradin's heyday back in Burning Crusade and some of Wrath, I had hoped Dabu would get Horde side back up and running numbers-wise. Maybe some more competition.

But yeah, remember when Grandeur was around? They mostly kept to themselves. They seemed serious. I never saw any specific members get called out in trade or a rejected app go nuts on the forum/trade chat just because the guild wouldn't accept them. I always respected Grandeur for their professionalism when they were here. It was definitely sad seeing them go, and it's even sad that the guild disbanded not too long ago...

Having fun isn't just being able to brute-force anything in this game. You do have to use your head. Teamwork goes a long way. Knowing your class goes a long way. Coordination is key. In one failed Galleon kill I've unfortunately been in the Horde were able to take him down even as we tried to pick them off.

See, now why can't we keep our tanks/healers alive in just the same way?
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90 Undead Priest
8935
11/23/2012 11:09 AMPosted by Tatianah
Please dont ever compare Paramount to WWYOG!

We don't want to be compared to some guild that you think so highly of because you refuse to remove your Ruby Shades. We just want to play this game because we enjoy killing bosses. We also don't play it to impress people.


Wow mate, You pull out this call because i put in my imput, why bother responding if you dont want to impress people. if my comment tore your soul apart because its true.

Then i am deeply sorry mate!
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90 Worgen Hunter
16790
Dude. Knock it off, you aren't cool. You're just the kind of guy that bashes people at every turn just to look cool. I honestly don't get why you have beef with us anyway. I'll take initiative here and be the bigger man and offer to be your buddy, it's fine. As for my soul, you can't tear something up that isn't there :P
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90 Human Paladin
12100
if i comment in this forum does this mean im no longer low key?
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90 Goblin Warlock
4715
If this is solely about who's gotten galleon.. horde has gotten him the passed 6 weeks or so:)
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90 Worgen Hunter
16790
12/08/2012 07:04 PMPosted by Salaron
If this is solely about who's gotten galleon.. horde has gotten him the passed 6 weeks or so:)


That's six weeks too many.
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I have friends in almost every other major guild on the server. Even some of the Horde guilds. (Voodoo. Dem. <3)


I'm not your friend, pal.
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90 Human Warlock
13725
11/23/2012 01:29 AMPosted by Bøyblunder
Paramount: you certainly have influence, but others do not respect you, therefore, you have no power.


I get where you're coming from, and unfortunately I'd have to mostly agree. But, I don't think there's much we can do about it. Myself and many others in the guild have tried and tried to fix the way people see us, but then you get people (Such as Manpanther, Ravedoz more recently, and a few others that haven't made a big enough impression for me to remember) who do what they can to either provoke us so we retaliate and make ourselves look worse, or convince people that we're all "elitists" or !@#$%^-s who treat each other like garbage.

I'm not trying to say we haven't made mistakes. We lost track of what our guild was all about in MOP. We took the new competition too hard when we shouldn't have. We play to have fun and we let our ranking on this realm get to our head for a while after 4.3 when most of the top guilds xferred. We still want to progress, but we want it to be fun, not stressful.

I don't think Paramount will ever have the respect of people on Muradin simply by reading the forums. At least not after all the comments I've seen.

I can honestly say the people in Paramount are some of the best people I've ever met. People can think what they want of us. I can try all I want to change their mind, but that's not my choice to make.
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how are you guys going to defeat the horde if theres so much internal conflicts going on
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90 Goblin Shaman
10210
Now that the dust has settled, I want to put my two cents in. Specifically in response to Paramount and Lockandlawl.

Many of you may not know but Lockandlawl went out of his way to come over and speak with me shortly after the forums rightfully discussed Dabu's move to Muradin. He and I had a great conversation about what transpired and why. We gave some back story into each other guilds and what we were each about. Ironically our philosophies were similar.

I believe Lockandlawl is a good indication as to the maturity and professionalism that resides within Paramount. His honestly and openness about Paramount, to me, is something that can definitely be respected.

With that said, I just want to tell Muradin thank you for all the support you have given us. I also want to say thanks again to Lockandlawl for coming over and speaking with me. It meant a lot and justifies yet again why we feel Muradin has a great community.
Edited by Xxl on 12/12/2012 8:20 AM PST
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If there is one thing Muradin has going for it, it is definitely that there are plenty of truly nice and funny people here. The lack of progression can get extremely frustrating but going to other realms to get better progression definitely highlights the difference in the social qualities of the average person you meet on muradin.

I moved a couple of characters recently and it makes me miss Mura peeps awesomeness :(
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12/12/2012 08:19 AMPosted by Xxl
the dust has settled


;'<

This server finds a way to make me smile every week - thanks, everyone.

I think.. I just developed a soft spot for you, Fey... or maybe it's just the music:

http://grooveshark.com/#!/s/Dive/4BssQ7/overview?src=5
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