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While generally speaking, speaking for everyone in a large group is not a good idea. This is probably a good assumption. I am not sure there are any drawbacks for that specific subset of PvP'rs.
I never played in premades to get faster rewards. It was a bonus to get closer to the 100K HK achievement, but ultimately, i participated in promenades because of the following:
1. The School of Hard Knocks Sucks. Not the achievement, not the the process of going from crafted pvp gear to honor gear but just being under geared and trying to get into the game. This sucks in Random BG's because if you're not geared, you're toast. No matter what. Thus, playing with a premade ensured (especially in 40 man) that you were going to be able to at least help contribute to the success of the team and play the game without getting curb stomped every time a better geared player came upon you. If a new player picks up this game, lvls up to 90, goes into their first random BG and they get curb stomped, I can assure you that a lot of those people woulld say, "This sucks, I'm not doing it anymore." "But wait newbie until you get some Gear" I don't know about you, but I know getting killed over and over again on my undergeared alt is not fun and in a random BG< people just don't care. At least in a Premade...that isn't the case. Which leads me to number 2.
2. I wanted to play with people who were working towards a common goal. Sure War Games might be an answer. But War Games does not provide the feeling of queing against an unknown enemy force and fighting tooth and nail for the win. In premades, we don't really have to worry about Bots or Afk'ers. You don't have all these keyboard gangsta's griefing people. Picking up flags and dropping them so the Enemy team can get easy wins etc. You know the jerks I'm talking about. In premades this doesn't happen. TLDR for number 2 - TEAMWORK
Those are my main 2 reason. Team work and strength in numbers to enhance the Experience of PvP in WoW.
this fair environment thinking is the fallacy they
just can't seem to get past. rated, non rated,
beside the point. bg environments are fair and
that is found in the layout. after that, you
battle it out.
if you conclude this fair argument as they're
presenting it then what you have is, queue pops,
both factions sit in their respective corners,
bg ends, everybody gets a reward.
the pvp /bg fairness thing is a bit of a joke
really. it's all about not being fair. you take
advantage of the opponent by exploiting
their weakness then stomping them.
things are what they are. the anti pvp /bg
/premade crowd have a hollow victory, and
the patch makers seem to have lost touch
with what warcraft really is. there it is.
I think the issue some has is they wish to start the game with a big advantage against the other team.
Pointing the obvious out to them that they can all quere together to play another organized and hand-picked group is not going to solve their issue.
They want the big advantage, not a fair fight.
Edited by Nazene on 12/4/2012 3:49 PM PST
Excuse me sir, but Rated BG's are limited to 10 players, what about my other 30 friends?
Also you have to have top notch gear, resil, etc etc, or we will just be fodder to the Rated Teams we get thrown in with. Do we random BG till we get our gear? and that will take about, 2-3-4 months depending on the CTA and luck?
Also war games, people keep saying war games. When was the last time you played a war game? To be truthful I thought I picked the horde and a pvp server to kill the opposing faction. Not my friends.
Yes I am being a smart !@# because I am tired of the same cookie cutter replies.
I find this amusing. I have been in plenty of AV's where stormpike got rushed and Van got killed before Drek. It was basically a race to see which died first. Also, there are several ways that just a few people can slow this down. Alliance never guards the towers with more than 2 people. Take them back. Also try to pick off anyone that might be in tank spec. Keep us from getting a tank and you win. If you force a turtle, horde usually wins. Do this by protecting Galv.
You're missing the point. I know that strat. I know there are ways for the Horde to win.
I'm saying that Blizzard needs to force the issue in AV. Laugh all you want or be amused all you want. Are YOU ENTERTAINED? Geez.....comments like yours are part of the problem. You miss the point.
The point being. Let me spell it out for you....
Blizzard needs change player mentality by forcing the pvp issue so that players don't have the option of riding by each other.
It's not that AV favors the alliance, but that the game favors zerging the bosses and for the alliance this easier. It's been proven, time and time again that it's easier for the Alliance to zerg the castle. So get rid of the Zerg. That is why most of us queed with Rath in the first place.
To PvP in AV.
I think the issue some has is they wish to start the game with a big advantage against the other team.
LOL this seems to fit you too!!
So, you don't like the rofl stomping shoe on the other foot?
BG Players: There are too many bots in battlegrounds, let's make a way to ensure that we actually have an enjoyable gaming experience!
Blizzard Dev 1: Hey the customers are sick of playing with bots in battlegrounds, should we ban the bots or do anything that actually addresses the problem at hand?
Blizzard Dev 2: Nah let's just break the add-on they made. If both teams are half bots then its fair so they can have fun with that or go home.
I love the snarky responses that they then use to defend their brilliant design philosophy..... Stay classy Blizzard!
I wanted to play with people who were working towards a common goal. Sure War Games might be an answer. But War Games does not provide the feeling of queing against an unknown enemy force and fighting tooth and nail for the win.
Plenty of times you can fight tooth and nail to win matches.
How many times has Blizzard said they wanted to reinforce the team aspect of this game. Hence Rated BG's giving more CP and the best pvp gear coming from team play and not solo play.
They reinforce this all the time. Look at raids.. You get the best gear by going out and finding a group of people you like to play with. You kill bosses, you enjoy loot. If you choose to do LFR only, your progression will be as such.
I don't like getting steamrolled because the players on my team are bots or don't care. There is so much "I dont' care" in this game that it drives people like me crazy. So I gravitate toward team play and now team play is being punished for that. I don't want to crush 10 random players....but Blizzard created a system that pushes us toward working with each other. We do that, and then we're told, "that's bad and unfair gameplay".
inb4 l2RatedBG --- I'm on Runetotem. Hardly anyone PvP's but I raid with J!nx and I'm quite happy raiding with my team. Also, rated BG's aren't very kind to toons with crafted gear.
Should people gearing up be forced to spend 2-3 weeks in the GY of all BG's to gear up? Why are there botters? Because PvP on undergeared toons is frustrating.
The problem isn't the Bots, but the design of the system. It's a good system that needs refining, but it's still a problem with the system
Edited by Rexzoolza on 12/4/2012 4:00 PM PST
Perhaps this seemed to be your personal experience, but I assure you that this was far from generally the case. Regardless, what of the games that you played that weren't against other pre-mades? Just hapless casualties to your fun, I suppose?
We really don`t like to be "rated" or "graded" all the time, you see? An example: imagine I have a full PvE blues friend (being generous here) or just leveled a new alt and I`m not geared in it. Now, I don`t want the chaos and awfulness of PuGs, it ruins MY PvP experience. Yet, he/I can`t run rbgs risking to lose rating, or won`t be accepted in that kind of group (People get too serious when their precious kept score is at stake). I AM FORCED to run "false Player vs Player" in order to qualify for true PvP. To do something that isn`t fun, in order to qualify for fun.
Why can`t we just have the ability to queue a >5 man group, and WoW only matches us with another >5man group (for normal bgs rather than rbgs, getting the honor we need, having no rating to worry about losing). How`s that unbalanced? WoW could warn us when we hit join as group: "Queuing with a group greater than 5 members will get you against a group also greater than 5 members. Are you sure you wish to continue?" so that people don`t mistakenly get stomped with the feature.
When we run pre-mades, I`m not gonna lie, most are fast and easy wins. But it`s when you go against another one that people talk on vent about how "That match was so cool", "did you guys see what I did against that guy", "Great win guys! God, this is what I play WoW for" or "That was so close! Next time we`ll surely win". Those are the most fun parts, the easy honor is convenience.
Wargames are a joke: you have to have both groups, there`s no sense of "the enemy" as with going against (in our case) alliance teams. There`s also no randomness and unexpected enemies. The features listed above could be implemented on them and they`d be amazing fun, but, right now, tell us: how many actually use them? You sure have the data, it`s just too humiliating to release to the public.
"I think this way therefore everyone thinks like me" is all I see from you. You are unwilling and unable to see that many more people are negatively affected by being curb stomped than you are negatively affected by not being able to do the curb stomping.
Blizzard has given you tools to build your 5-man PVP team; Battle Tag friends, RealID friends, your friends list. They've given you the ability to group/queue with people from outside your realm.
What they don't want you to have is the ability to build 10, 25, or 40 player teams in Battlegrounds to play vs randomly selected players.
They've given you Rated Battlegrounds and Arena for more intense or larger group play where you're not going to face groups randomly assembled.
You have tools for doing things in a coordinated, intense, all-player format. Choosing to ignore them in favor of giving yourself a pre-built team against randomly selected players means that you're just acting on the age-old cry of the entitled, "Gimmie it, it's MINE!"
But they are so far and so in between. If this is what you play WoW for then get into some real competitive play. It's available.
War Games are not really a joke in theory. They are a joke in reality because you need to have two players on opposing sides on the same server which will be involved in the war game. That's just silly. When I was involved with trying to get an all-druid war game the hardest part wasn't finding people, it was finding people on opposing factions on the same server. If you could queue against others through bnet that would make much more sense and help the system out.
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