JoinBattlefield, Post 5.1? PART 2

90 Worgen Druid
17805
MoP was all about putting the war back into warcraft.
it was about grouping with friends to combat enemies.

Correct: trying to bring war back into warcraft, i.e. world pvp.

BGs will be the same regardless. That is far from world pvp. BGs are about even battles and when you have coordinated groups vs uncoordinated pugs you are left with uneven battles.
90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
12/03/2012 12:33 PMPosted by Dysheki


And I ask you: Why should people who prefer to play with friends and community, and made the personal choice to PVP, be marginalized and treated as second-rate citizens and called cheaters and exploiters?
Is this not what 20 and 40 man instances and BG's, the 40 man world bosses, the open world PVP zones, the opening of cross realms, the inplementing of battle tags, the recruit a friend, and realm phasing? Oh and do not forget the endless number of times the word community is used in the advertising of WoW.
PVP is a personal choice. It is one of the non-scripted aspects of the game that is still allowed.
Just as PVE appeals to some and they are allowed to make that "personal" choice. PVP appeals to others and they should be allowed to make their choice.

I don't see how you're marginalized. You still have all those things to do. Plus taking away the ability for someone else to queue for you is really nothing bad at all (which, in case you weren't aware, is all that happened).


I am NOT complaining about the addon being broken. Personally, I don't need or and never have needed an addon to group and run premades of any type.
I am asking you, why you think you are any more special than myself or anyone else that prefers to make a choice of their own free will.
If you prefer to solo BG's, it is your choice. It doesn't make it right or wrong. It doesn't make you special.
90 Worgen Druid
17805
12/03/2012 12:44 PMPosted by Xaeva
I am asking you, why you think you are any more special than myself or anyone else that prefers to make a choice of their own free will.

Because that's the way the rules have been over the years. You can have a group of up to 5 join a BG. It's changed over time but for the most part that has been the common theme. I don't think it's that bad of a rule. It lets people group up for random BGs and at the same time helps minimalize the effect of too many coordinated individuals joining a single BG.
90 Undead Warrior
12140
MoP was all about putting the war back into warcraft.
it was about grouping with friends to combat enemies.

Correct: trying to bring war back into warcraft, i.e. world pvp.

BGs will be the same regardless. That is far from world pvp. BGs are about even battles and when you have coordinated groups vs uncoordinated pugs you are left with uneven battles.


sure, world pvp area's. i love it. that's the war.
however, it seems there is a desire to kill the warcraft
part of the game and pick how many you game with.

the battleground is even. 10 v 10, 15 v 15, fairly
even distances between structures, etc. here's
the thing, the battleground lends itself to coordinated
play. does not matter if it's a solo random, two
people from the same realm, or a full on premade,
it is about coordinated play.

tender ego's, derpy doo's, lazy lou's, and robots following
way points are a plague in the battlegrounds and this
patch is a way to ensure their survival while tearing down
everything this expansion was touted to be.

Cheers.
Pleb.
90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
I am asking you, why you think you are any more special than myself or anyone else that prefers to make a choice of their own free will.

Because that's the way the rules have been over the years. You can have a group of up to 5 join a BG. It's changed over time but for the most part that has been the common theme. I don't think it's that bad of a rule. It lets people group up for random BGs and at the same time helps minimalize the effect of too many coordinated individuals joining a single BG.


A group of 5 is concidered a premade also, but beside the point.
It seems to be it is not the amount you are against, it is if they are "coordinated individuals joining a single BG"?
Edited by Xaeva on 12/3/2012 1:26 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
18345
12/03/2012 01:22 PMPosted by Xaeva

Because that's the way the rules have been over the years. You can have a group of up to 5 join a BG. It's changed over time but for the most part that has been the common theme. I don't think it's that bad of a rule. It lets people group up for random BGs and at the same time helps minimalize the effect of too many coordinated individuals joining a single BG.


A group of 5 is concidered a premade also, but beside the point.
It seems to be it is not the amount you are against, it is if they are "coordinated individuals joining a single BG"?


But it's NOT a single's BG. It's groups of people. If you want singles queues, have blizzard make 1v1 arenas, and see how unpopular that'll be.
90 Blood Elf Hunter
0


A group of 5 is concidered a premade also, but beside the point.
It seems to be it is not the amount you are against, it is if they are "coordinated individuals joining a single BG"?


But it's NOT a single's BG. It's groups of people. If you want singles queues, have blizzard make 1v1 arenas, and see how unpopular that'll be.


Dual for ratings!!!

Love it!
90 Blood Elf Paladin
16230
I was going to post this in the sticky thread, but it capped, so ill post it here:

Oh, where to begin...well, first off, oQ and how people seem to criticize its use seems like a great place to start. Well, you legitimately can not complain about it in the sense that it is completely unfair. Its free, available to anyone with the mental capacity to download and set it up, AND I have seen several threads going around advertising what it does and how to use it. To not use it was, and still is really only limiting yourself as a player. I used it a few times and honestly it was probably the most fun I have personally had since WotLK when PvP was much more bot-free. When I went back to PvP in cata i did not know any PvPers in the community so I was forced to random queue like most people and was forced to put up with bots while they were (and still are) running rampant. Personally, after having a taste of what PvP is like when playing and working with an entire team of people that can communicate with each other, and understand BG strats, I do not even see the point of PvPing without oQ. I mean really, ask yourself, "Why PvP with people that have no clue how to properly play BGs, play in all PvE gear and wonder they get crushed, and/or with bots and AFKers? Especially when I can grab this 'free' addon and jump into a group full of real people that know what they are doing (Or can at least be taught how)."

Also, after reading the myriad of angry posts here. It really seems most of the people arguing against oQ hate the use of organized strategy in a public setting, mostly because they would prefer to just breeze through the objectives without any regard to what is actually going on. Personally, I don't see why players should degrade their standards for the sake of the casual crowd that just wants to 'herp-derp' through their random BGs and faceroll to the end. Why not adapt to the situation and be around other players you can actually learn and grow with? I mean, last I checked, BGs were won with teamwork, not the 'lone ranger' hero effect.

I'm sure my post will receive some flaming responses, but it does not matter. The attempted blocking of this addon does however leave me worried. It fostered a community and brought quite a few people together which is very impressive. Trying to force ban it leaves me with one major question though, "With the recent major nerfs to things like herbing, mining, and now this...why is Blizzard changing aspects of the game that supports bots?" Regardless of the answer I may get, which will be saddening to say the least, the game is already heading down a path similar to how it was in Cata, which definitely is going to hurt the community more than most people seem to realize.

PS: Excuse the lengthy post, after reading a lot of the angry posts I had a lot to say... :(
Edited by Myrianda on 12/3/2012 2:15 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
Before this starts again, let us make one thing totally clear. The breaking of oQueue and any addon like it, was NOT done to stop or help "Bots". It had nothing to do with Bots or bot programs.
The queing addons that we used actually had to have human interaction. You had to listen to leaders voices, take orders and respond either verbaly or by chat.
I am not sure where the idea came from that this act from Blizzard had anything to do with their problem with bots, but I know for a fact it had nothing to do with Bots.
So let's just dump that BS back in to the steamy pile, shall we?
Edited by Xaeva on 12/3/2012 2:47 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
Bots are only mentioned as it was one of the reasons some began using the add-on. I was one of those players.

I am not sure where the idea came from that this act from Blizzard had anything to do with their problem with bots, but I know for a fact it had nothing to do with Bots.


I hadn't read anything suggesting that from any knowledgable person.
Usually it goes something like: "Blizzard can break this but not do anything about bots.." Someone did mention, somewhere, that this would have taken much less time and effort to "fix" than the bot issue- which is apparently difficult to detect, and seemingly impossible to prevent.


Aha, yes, my mistake. The reason that so many did turn to and enjoy using these addons was to avoid having to play with the Bots.. Using these addons made it possible to insure that you were going in to a BG with live people. It also made the bots that had qued up using the random stick out like a sore thumb. (like the guy that puts you on follow, even though you are a stealthy LOL)
90 Worgen Druid
17805
12/03/2012 01:22 PMPosted by Xaeva

Because that's the way the rules have been over the years. You can have a group of up to 5 join a BG. It's changed over time but for the most part that has been the common theme. I don't think it's that bad of a rule. It lets people group up for random BGs and at the same time helps minimalize the effect of too many coordinated individuals joining a single BG.


A group of 5 is concidered a premade also, but beside the point.
It seems to be it is not the amount you are against, it is if they are "coordinated individuals joining a single BG"?

You're completely misreading my post.

It is not beside the point. The 5 limit was made because they wanted to give people the freedom to queue as a group but not so much to be an overwhelming to join as an entire premade vs a pure pug. That is the balance they have decided to go with and I think it is a perfectly fine way to go about. You can still go in groups, though not large, and you are not against giant premades that are, at times, overwhelming.
90 Worgen Druid
17805
I would also like to make it clear that I have used Preform AV Enabler to lead HK farm groups while they were causing a ruckus on the forums at the end of Cata. Even during those times I had maintained this type of premade activity should not be allowed. I lost one game in the hundreds of games I led and >95% of them were cakewalks. I don't see how anyone can consider that fun. I only used it as a means to an end.

But when you have a mostly organized bunch vs completely unorganized pugs you will have such an incredible advantage it's just silly to say you have fun doing it. I haven't used it since I got Bloodthirsty and I won't even if it were brought back.
90 Human Priest
16625
12/03/2012 12:30 PMPosted by Xaeva
Ask Ghostcrawler. He seems to think it's pretty obvious what rules he's referring to. I think anyone with any common sense could see it, unless they're just bending over backwards to convince themselves that pub stomping is acceptable.


OH...
you have not seen them either.
Sigh. Reallly? Know how you can queue for a battleground as a group, but only with a party and not a raid? How you used to be able to, but that feature was taken away? Know how if you have to jump though all sorts of hoops to get it back? Know how when you do, your games are strangely very, very easy? Blizzard should not have to create full, detailed documentation on every single feature that's possible in the game and then add 'and don't try to get around this one, either!'

Honestly, you shouldn't have to have everything spelled out for you. If you had an ounce of common sense you'd at least realize you were doing something you weren't supposed to be doing. So I'm sorry that you don't believe that the limitation on party size constitutes a 'rule,' I'm afraid I'm going to have to take GC's word for it over yours.
90 Blood Elf Hunter
0


A group of 5 is concidered a premade also, but beside the point.
It seems to be it is not the amount you are against, it is if they are "coordinated individuals joining a single BG"?

You're completely misreading my post.
It is not beside the point. The 5 limit was made because they wanted to give people the freedom to queue as a group but not so much to be an overwhelming to join as an entire premade vs a pure pug. That is the balance they have decided to go with and I think it is a perfectly fine way to go about. You can still go in groups, though not large, and you are not against giant premades that are, at times, overwhelming.


Ok, let me try to understand this. You think a 5 group for PVP is fine, right?
So you would go in to a 10 or 25 man PVE raid instance with only 5, right?
(And I am not talking old raids that can be walked through by solos now)

The point I am not seeing is why we as a PVP community are being, as you yourself put it, "marginalized" for choosing PVP.
90 Worgen Druid
17805
Ok, let me try to understand this. You think a 5 group for PVP is fine, right?
So you would go in to a 10 or 25 man PVE raid instance with only 5, right?
(And I am not talking old raids that can be walked through by solos now)

The point I am not seeing is why we as a PVP community are being, as you yourself put it, "marginalized" for choosing PVP.

Because you are given other players to make up for the lesser amount and you're against the same odds? It's player versus player, not player versus dragon. Just because you have a group of 5 doesn't mean you can't get into LFR and not have others fill in the raid slots. You're really comparing apples to oranges and it's not making any sense.
90 Undead Warrior
12140
12/03/2012 03:58 PMPosted by Cylthia


OH...
you have not seen them either.
Sigh. Reallly? Know how you can queue for a battleground as a group, but only with a party and not a raid? How you used to be able to, but that feature was taken away? Know how if you have to jump though all sorts of hoops to get it back? Know how when you do, your games are strangely very, very easy? Blizzard should not have to create full, detailed documentation on every single feature that's possible in the game and then add 'and don't try to get around this one, either!'

Honestly, you shouldn't have to have everything spelled out for you. If you had an ounce of common sense you'd at least realize you were doing something you weren't supposed to be doing. So I'm sorry that you don't believe that the limitation on party size constitutes a 'rule,' I'm afraid I'm going to have to take GC's word for it over yours.


the only constant in your shrill tirades
over the past four months is that you
hate premades, you hate groups of
people gathering towards a common
goal. we get it. the rest of your dialog
amounts to nothing more than flustered
ramblings for the sake of rambling.

keep yourself out of the battlegrounds.
it's far too much for you do deal with.

Cheers.
Pleb.
90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
12/03/2012 03:58 PMPosted by Cylthia


OH...
you have not seen them either.
Sigh. Reallly? Know how you can queue for a battleground as a group, but only with a party and not a raid? How you used to be able to, but that feature was taken away? Know how if you have to jump though all sorts of hoops to get it back? Know how when you do, your games are strangely very, very easy? Blizzard should not have to create full, detailed documentation on every single feature that's possible in the game and then add 'and don't try to get around this one, either!'

Honestly, you shouldn't have to have everything spelled out for you. If you had an ounce of common sense you'd at least realize you were doing something you weren't supposed to be doing. So I'm sorry that you don't believe that the limitation on party size constitutes a 'rule,' I'm afraid I'm going to have to take GC's word for it over yours.


wow, I never said there was or wasn't any rules, I just asked a question.
Yes, the limitation on party size would be considered a "rule".
You can not have more than 5 in a party.
But I do not see, or have I heard of any rule against more than 1 party queing at the same time, Be it addon or the plain old fashion call out and count down. (Which btw, I should send a huge ty to the Alliance side for teaching that to us many many years ago. It was a huge help)
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