JoinBattlefield, Post 5.1? PART 2

90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
12/03/2012 08:32 PMPosted by Cylthia
Because currently, it is impossible to make premade queuing fair to both teams. It can't be done. The options are singles or groups of five or less matched against each other, or premades stomping pugs in hopelessly mismatched games


Everything in this statement is wrong. It IS possible, or at least it WAS possible.
Do you not see this?
The addons that were broken were fixing this.
The addons were doing something Blizzard did not or could not do.
They were bringing true PVP and Teamwork back to the BG's.
Yes, the addons were growing in popularity, which was a wonderful thing.
More and more Coordinated Players, less Solo Puggers.
Battlegrounds were going back to their old and true glory.

Battleground were introduced to wow to try and curve world PVP for the same reasons you are using against them now. Being stomped several times trying to complete quests, farming for mats, just getting from 1 point to another is a lot more less fun in the world than it is when you queue up for a BG knowing you might die or get graveyard camped.

Your excuse that the addons were getting to big, to well known is not a bad thing. It was good for everyone, PVP, PVE, Casual or Hard core. It was excellent PR for Blizzard, not to mention it saved several people for just quitting wow during other MMO Releases.

Yes, I know, I am fighting an already lost battle, but I am still trying to make people understand, including Blizzard, that this was a mistake. I know they will never come out and "admit" it, that is asking to much. I just want the other to relize, the addons weren't the villians or the exploits that they are being made out to be. They were a solution to a problem that has been around a long long time.
100 Human Priest
18555
Because currently, it is impossible to make premade queuing fair to both teams. It can't be done. The options are singles or groups of five or less matched against each other, or premades stomping pugs in hopelessly mismatched games


Everything in this statement is wrong. It IS possible, or at least it WAS possible.
Do you not see this?
The addons that were broken were fixing this.
The addons were doing something Blizzard did not or could not do.
Wait, what? These addons ensured evenly matched games against equally coordinated opponents? They only matched premades against other premades? Because I didn't say that Blizzard couldn't lift the restriction on party size but that they said they didn't want to until they could get the queue to matchmake large premades against other large premades, because the alternative - just changing the party limit and matching premades against pugs - doesn't make for good gameplay.

The addon wasn't good for everyone. It was only good for the people who were using it. People should not have to form full 10-to-40 man groups or use an addon to add strangers to their RealID to have a fighting chance in unrated battlegrounds. If they do, then how are they different from rateds?
Edited by Cylthia on 12/3/2012 9:28 PM PST
100 Undead Warrior
13890
Because currently, it is impossible to make premade queuing fair to both teams. It can't be done. The options are singles or groups of five or less matched against each other, or premades stomping pugs in hopelessly mismatched games


Everything in this statement is wrong. It IS possible, or at least it WAS possible.
Do you not see this?
The addons that were broken were fixing this.
The addons were doing something Blizzard did not or could not do.
They were bringing true PVP and Teamwork back to the BG's.
Yes, the addons were growing in popularity, which was a wonderful thing.
More and more Coordinated Players, less Solo Puggers.
Battlegrounds were going back to their old and true glory.

Battleground were introduced to wow to try and curve world PVP for the same reasons you are using against them now. Being stomped several times trying to complete quests, farming for mats, just getting from 1 point to another is a lot more less fun in the world than it is when you queue up for a BG knowing you might die or get graveyard camped.

Your excuse that the addons were getting to big, to well known is not a bad thing. It was good for everyone, PVP, PVE, Casual or Hard core. It was excellent PR for Blizzard, not to mention it saved several people for just quitting wow during other MMO Releases.

Yes, I know, I am fighting an already lost battle, but I am still trying to make people understand, including Blizzard, that this was a mistake. I know they will never come out and "admit" it, that is asking to much. I just want the other to relize, the addons weren't the villians or the exploits that they are being made out to be. They were a solution to a problem that has been around a long long time.


quite right Xaeva. i think many of us understand this.
there are a few doorknobs that continue being sos.
'tis a shame that this patch happened. in my five years
of playing this is by far the single biggest blunder i've
seen. the blizz work floor has got to be full of disorder
and small minded thinking to let this patch go live.

all the same, i'll still pvp and bg, and have no intention
of being polite about it. so all you pve champs, nubs,
whiners, cry babies, be ready. i'm coming for you. i
will be stomping your sorry self, smashing your fat face,
gutting you like a deer... i have a patch of my own.
it's on the end of my boot and i'm putting it up your...

Cheers.
Pleb.

*looks at post above me...
*looks down at boot..., and snickers.
Edited by Theplebian on 12/3/2012 9:30 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
Wait, what? These addons ensured evenly matched games against equally coordinated opponents? They only matched premades against other premades? Because I didn't say that Blizzard couldn't lift the restriction on party size but that they said they didn't want to until they could get the queue to matchmake large premades against other large premades, because the alternative - just changing the party limit and matching premades against pugs - doesn't make for good gameplay. The addon wasn't good for everyone. It was only good for the people who were using it. People should not have to form full 10-to-40 man groups or use an addon to add strangers to their RealID to have a fighting chance in unrated battlegrounds. If they do, then how are they different from rateds?


Is it not true that a lot of guilds "require" certain addons?
Is it not true that Rated BG teams require certain addons?
Is it not true that the reason Blizzard gave us Battle Tags is to make it safer and easier for us to make groups and future friends?
Is it not true that Blizzard actually has an in game voice chat function?
Is it not true that you can remove any Battle Tag friend whenever you like just by clicking?
Is it not true that most guilds and Teams have their own Team-speak,vent, or skype?
100 Human Priest
18555
12/03/2012 10:10 PMPosted by Xaeva
Wait, what? These addons ensured evenly matched games against equally coordinated opponents? They only matched premades against other premades? Because I didn't say that Blizzard couldn't lift the restriction on party size but that they said they didn't want to until they could get the queue to matchmake large premades against other large premades, because the alternative - just changing the party limit and matching premades against pugs - doesn't make for good gameplay. The addon wasn't good for everyone. It was only good for the people who were using it. People should not have to form full 10-to-40 man groups or use an addon to add strangers to their RealID to have a fighting chance in unrated battlegrounds. If they do, then how are they different from rateds?


Is it not true that a lot of guilds "require" certain addons?
Is it not true that Rated BG teams require certain addons?
Is it not true that the reason Blizzard gave us Battle Tags is to make it safer and easier for us to make groups and future friends?
Is it not true that Blizzard actually has an in game voice chat function?
Is it not true that you can remove any Battle Tag friend whenever you like just by clicking?
Is it not true that most guilds and Teams have their own Team-speak,vent, or skype?
Sure, all of those things are true. But when an addon becomes so powerful that it becomes essentially mandatory, Blizzard has to either break it or balance the game around it. They balanced the game around DBM. They broke AVR. And that was an addon that only affected pve, where other players' experiences did not suddenly become much worse because someone else was using an addon.

You're trying to force people to play unrated battlegrounds like they're rateds. That doesn't make sense. You can't force that playstyle on everyone in the game just because you like it. The better option is to find a way to match people who want to play that way against each other, rather than matching them against people who did not choose to queue in a full premade. That doesn't exist now. That doesn't mean that unrated battlegrounds should turn into rateds with worse rewards and frequently much worse opponents.
Edited by Cylthia on 12/3/2012 10:23 PM PST
12/03/2012 07:52 PMPosted by Xaeva
Yep, who knows how long it'll take, but I think their reasoning for restricting premade size until they're able to match up groups on a larger scale is sound.


Dosn't seem logical that instead of Restricting premade size they could simple tell the players that Battle grounds were made for and may contain premades and instruct them how to get their own premades going?

We decided to make this change in order to improve the experience for all players who are queueing into random groups normally and expecting to face similarly random groups, only to find themselves crushed by a full team of coordinated opponents.


So again they choose another group over the PVP comunity.

No, the questions are still there.
Why now, after 6 years they decided the experience was bad?
Why are we being punished for trying to bring coordinated pvp to Battlegrounds, but no restrictions are being placed on World PVP?

Several questions, no answers and no logic.


You honestly have to ask why? Did you miss thread after thread in the past months full of gloating and screenshots? The blitz to advertise and advocate the use of these addons to "humilate" and "deprive" players of honor? You can thank those people for grabbing the attention of the powers that be and making this change happen.
[quote]Wait, what? These addons ensured evenly matched games against equally coordinated opponents? They only matched premades against other premades? Because I didn't say that Blizzard couldn't lift the restriction on party size but that they said they didn't want to until they could get the queue to matchmake large premades against other large premades, because the alternative - just changing the party limit and matching premades against pugs - doesn't make for good gameplay. The addon wasn't good for everyone. It was only good for the people who were using it. People should not have to form full 10-to-40 man groups or use an addon to add strangers to their RealID to have a fighting chance in unrated battlegrounds. If they do, then how are they different from rateds?


You're trying to force people to play unrated battlegrounds like they're rateds. That doesn't make sense. You can't force that playstyle on everyone in the game just because you like it. The better option is to find a way to match people who want to play that way against each other, rather than matching them against people who did not choose to queue in a full premade. That doesn't exist now. That doesn't mean that unrated battlegrounds should turn into rateds with worse rewards and frequently much worse opponents.


Blizz's matchmaking system attempts to match full premades with 5 man groups, if none are available a full pug is chosen. IMO a 5 man premade is just as "evil" as a 9 man as both end in pug stomping. DBM is pretty much mandatory to do raids, healers must die or battleground targets are pretty much mandatory in RBG's. 1000 Oqueuers stomping 2000 pugs in the great big world of warcraft doesn't "force" anyone to download anything, but it's a hell of a good idea.
Edited by Borisha on 12/4/2012 5:30 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
You're trying to force people to play unrated battlegrounds like they're rateds. That doesn't make sense. You can't force that playstyle on everyone in the game just because you like it. The better option is to find a way to match people who want to play that way against each other, rather than matching them against people who did not choose to queue in a full premade. That doesn't exist now. That doesn't mean that unrated battlegrounds should turn into rateds with worse rewards and frequently much worse opponents.


I am not forcing anyone to do anything. "I" and several of my comunity are the ones being forced in to a playstyle we don't enjoy because someone else decided they were to lazy to use an addon or they have a personal grudge against someone affiliated with one of the addons. I am willing to bet that this is more personal than professional.

From some of the older posts and posts from other threads, I am getting a very clear picture that this is not at all a professional or business decision, and has grown from a very deep and personal vendetta.

I know for a fact that you can not talk logic and reason when the point of topic is personal. It becomes a moot point and falls on deaf ears.
I am sorry, I expected different.
@Xaeva It seems you're arguing with a person that takes little responsibility for their own plight. Instead of saying "I'm going to make things happen", they say to themselves "bad things just happen to me, and someone else should make sure that doesn't happen." You and I deal with our frustrations queueing solo by seeking out friends and means to improve our experience while others write tickets complaining about it and expecting someone else to improve their experience.

Where's my free stuff!? QQ
Edited by Borisha on 12/4/2012 7:12 AM PST
100 Human Priest
18555


You're trying to force people to play unrated battlegrounds like they're rateds. That doesn't make sense. You can't force that playstyle on everyone in the game just because you like it. The better option is to find a way to match people who want to play that way against each other, rather than matching them against people who did not choose to queue in a full premade. That doesn't exist now. That doesn't mean that unrated battlegrounds should turn into rateds with worse rewards and frequently much worse opponents.


Blizz's matchmaking system attempts to match full premades with 5 man groups, if none are available a full pug is chosen. IMO a 5 man premade is just as "evil" as a 9 man as both end in pug stomping. DBM is pretty much mandatory to do raids, healers must die or battleground targets are pretty much mandatory in RBG's. 1000 Oqueuers stomping 2000 pugs in the great big world of warcraft doesn't "force" anyone to download anything, but it's a hell of a good idea.
But when you don't use the in-game queuing system, the game doesn't even have the opportunity to try to match you against another premade. Whether there are other premades around or not, you're not going to be placed against any unless it's completely by accident. And yes, those addons are mandatory for a lot of groups, as I said. But I keep hearing people saying that it doesn't matter that your addon gives an unfair advantage because anyone can use it to cheat the queue. When a pug gets matched against a huge premade, it does not matter that they could have cheated, too. That addon doesn't just make your game much easier, it makes the other team's much, much harder. That's very different from having bigger more noticable boss ability alerts or having an addon find healers for you (something that most players should be able to do for themselves very easily.)
12/04/2012 06:12 AMPosted by Xaeva
You're trying to force people to play unrated battlegrounds like they're rateds. That doesn't make sense. You can't force that playstyle on everyone in the game just because you like it. The better option is to find a way to match people who want to play that way against each other, rather than matching them against people who did not choose to queue in a full premade. That doesn't exist now. That doesn't mean that unrated battlegrounds should turn into rateds with worse rewards and frequently much worse opponents.


I am not forcing anyone to do anything. "I" and several of my comunity are the ones being forced in to a playstyle we don't enjoy because someone else decided they were to lazy to use an addon or they have a personal grudge against someone affiliated with one of the addons. I am willing to bet that this is more personal than professional.

[quote]From some of the older posts and posts from other threads, I am getting a very clear picture that this is not at all a professional or business decision, and has grown from a very deep and personal vendetta.

I know for a fact that you can not talk logic and reason when the point of topic is personal. It becomes a moot point and falls on deaf ears.
I am sorry, I expected different.
You're not being forced into anything. You're attempting to change the rules of unrated battlegrounds because you don't like them. You want everyone to either play them like rateds or lose. You aren't forced to queue for unrated battlegrounds, but if you do, you shouldn't force your personal set of rules onto the other players who did not queue expecting a rated battleground without the extra rewards. You keep saying 'but anyone could download the addon!' Yes. Anyone could use the addon to circumvent the queue. Anyone can download a bot, too. When your response to the unfair advantage that your addon gives is that anyone could use it, it does sound like you are trying to force your preferred playstyle on all players in unrated battleground, that you are trying to change the rules to suit you. Otherwise, why does it matter that anyone could use the addon? Look at your own stats. Almost exactly 50% of the games you've played on that character have been AVs. You've won 90% of them, but only around half all other maps combined. Nothing about that strikes you as odd? Do you really think that an addon should be an "I Win!" button? AVR was. It got broken.

But I guess it's just easier to assume that that Blizzard made this change because one of them lost to a HK farming premade. I guess that fits in well with your community's mentality. Does it make you feel better to imagine that the dev that made your pub stomps slghtly more diffcult was one of the 'ragequits' that oQueue keeps track of? I mean that feature alone says a lot; you assume that ever single person who leaves the battleground while it's in progress did so because they were being slaughtered by a coordinated group. Kind of puts the lie to this whole 'it's not about easy games, it's about community!' line.

Why is it so hard for you to believe that, having set up the queue to allow them to match premades against each other, they didn't like to see people getting around that feature to get bigger premades and taking advantage of the fact that, because of the limit, most of the teams they'd be playing would be much less coordinated than them?
Edited by Cylthia on 12/4/2012 7:24 AM PST
100 Human Priest
18555
@Xaeva It seems you're arguing with a person that takes little responsibility for their own plight. Instead of saying "I'm going to make things happen", they say to themselves "bad things just happen to me, and someone else should make sure that doesn't happen." You and I deal with our frustrations queueing solo by seeking out friends and means to improve our experience while others write tickets complaining about it and expecting someone else to improve their experience.

Where's my free stuff!? QQ
My own plight? As much as you might like to believe otherwise, I do just fine in unrated battlegrounds without circumventing the queue. I don't really get 'farmed' and I certainly never 'ragequit.' But I think that people who brag about cheating are losers. And I think people who whine about how making a cheat harder hurts their community are just sad.
90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
12/04/2012 07:16 AMPosted by Cylthia
But I guess it's just easier to assume that that Blizzard made this change because one of them lost to a HK farming premade. I guess that fits in well with your community's mentality. Does it make you feel better to imagine that the dev that made your pub stomps slghtly more diffcult was one of the 'ragequits' that oQueue keeps track of? I mean that feature alone says a lot; you assume that ever single person who leaves the battleground while it's in progress did so because they were being slaughtered by a coordinated group. Kind of puts the lie to this whole 'it's not about easy games, it's about community!' line.


I see you have used oQueue and have visited "my community", as you so nicely put it. And yes, by checking my stats you can clearly see that I do enjoy leading and teaching others the Rath Strat in AV. I am not one of those that think Titles and bragging rights are what this game is about. I prefer to "help" other people, those people who get "pub-stomped" as you call it, learn that there is another option to PVP BG's. That stratagy and team work does work.
I have said time after time that Blizzard really doesn't expect or want you to go stupid as soon as you hit the random queue button. Now I am really rethinking that statement.
Right now all mixed messages I am getting from Blizzard and all those connected to it is just so over whelming I am at the point of total fatigue.
One day they are celebrating Rathamus and our community, the next second we are cheaters and exploiters. They invite Rathamus to come visit the HQ and still break an addon made to help our community. They advertize and promote community but in turn try to distroy ours and lable us as heartless, cheats and exploiters.
What am I to think. Do I just bow down and follow the sheep? Do I become just another of those mindless, uncoordinated souls that don't relize that PVP is not scripted PVE and whine when I die because I expected to win because I always win in PVE so PVP should be the same right? Where is my loot?
90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
12/04/2012 07:26 AMPosted by Cylthia
My own plight? As much as you might like to believe otherwise, I do just fine in unrated battlegrounds without circumventing the queue. I don't really get 'farmed' and I certainly never 'ragequit.' But I think that people who brag about cheating are losers. And I think people who whine about how making a cheat harder hurts their community are just sad.


Don't you dare feel sad for me, ever! I don't cheat and I am sick and tired of you, yes you, calling me a cheater. I have done more good for this game and the people that play it than you will ever do with your fancy, holier than thou attitude.
100 Human Priest
18555
But I guess it's just easier to assume that that Blizzard made this change because one of them lost to a HK farming premade. I guess that fits in well with your community's mentality. Does it make you feel better to imagine that the dev that made your pub stomps slghtly more diffcult was one of the 'ragequits' that oQueue keeps track of? I mean that feature alone says a lot; you assume that ever single person who leaves the battleground while it's in progress did so because they were being slaughtered by a coordinated group. Kind of puts the lie to this whole 'it's not about easy games, it's about community!' line.


I see you have used oQueue and have visited "my community", as you so nicely put it. And yes, by checking my stats you can clearly see that I do enjoy leading and teaching others the Rath Strat in AV. I am not one of those that think Titles and bragging rights are what this game is about. I prefer to "help" other people, those people who get "pub-stomped" as you call it, learn that there is another option to PVP BG's. That stratagy and team work does work.
I have said time after time that Blizzard really doesn't expect or want you to go stupid as soon as you hit the random queue button. Now I am really rethinking that statement.
Right now all mixed messages I am getting from Blizzard and all those connected to it is just so over whelming I am at the point of total fatigue.
One day they are celebrating Rathamus and our community, the next second we are cheaters and exploiters. They invite Rathamus to come visit the HQ and still break an addon made to help our community. They advertize and promote community but in turn try to distroy ours and lable us as heartless, cheats and exploiters.
What am I to think. Do I just bow down and follow the sheep? Do I become just another of those mindless, uncoordinated souls that don't relize that PVP is not scripted PVE and whine when I die because I expected to win because I always win in PVE so PVP should be the same right? Where is my loot?
What on earth makes you think I've used oQueue? My point about your stats is not 'you play AV a lot' but 'you win AV far more than you do any other battleground; doesn't that maybe suggest that you've got an unreasonable advantage there'? Your win ratio in in AV is absurd. It's only possible because Blizzard can't match your 40 man premade against another 40 man premade, which is why they don't permit raids in unrated battlegrounds at all. The entire strategy is based around the assumption that the other team will be an uncoorinated pug. That's why it works. That is the only reason: you are all on vent and the other team just met. Don't believe me? Well then why do you guys have such a miserable record on the rare occasions that you've happened to be matched against other 40 man premades?

I don't actually recall Blizzard 'celebrating' your communities. Could you point out to me where that happened? Or are you talking about the ill-considered wow insider profile? That site isn't owned by Blizzard, you know. Was he 'invited' because he cheats at AV? Or because he bought one of those sever blades they sold for charity? Or did he just go on a tour? Because this sounds like an awful lot of hearsay to me.

You have many options to play with your friends. Unrated battlegrounds are not intended for the kind of play you want. You can deal with the experience not being perfect, you can try one of the other options, or you can go on cheating - but if you do the last one, please don't be surprised when you're called on it.
Edited by Cylthia on 12/4/2012 8:30 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
12/04/2012 08:29 AMPosted by Cylthia
What on earth makes you think I've used oQueue?


this does

12/04/2012 07:53 AMPosted by Xaeva
Does it make you feel better to imagine that the dev that made your pub stomps slghtly more diffcult was one of the 'ragequits' that oQueue keeps track of?


You don't like Rathamus or Tiny or the public vent much do you?
90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
My point about your stats is not 'you play AV a lot' but 'you win AV far more than you do any other battleground; doesn't that maybe suggest that you've got an unreasonable advantage there'? Your win ratio in in AV is absurd. It's only possible because Blizzard can't match your 40 man premade against another 40 man premade, which is why they don't permit raids in unrated battlegrounds at all. The entire strategy is based around the assumption that the other team will be an uncoorinated pug. That's why it works. That is the only reason: you are all on vent and the other team just met. Don't believe me? Well then why do you guys have such a miserable record on the rare occasions that you've happened to be matched against other 40 man premades?


My win ratio is because that is the BG I learn a strat for and was trying to teach to others.
The "other" BG wins and losses are when I was that random person being stomped by the alliance.
What miserable record are you referring to? We have gone up against several alliance premades. Some famous, some not so famous.
Was there a certain loss you were refering to?
90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
12/04/2012 08:29 AMPosted by Cylthia
I don't actually recall Blizzard 'celebrating' your communities. Could you point out to me where that happened? Or are you talking about the ill-considered wow insider profile? That site isn't owned by Blizzard, you know. Was he 'invited' because he cheats at AV? Or because he bought one of those sever blades they sold for charity? Or did he just go on a tour? Because this sounds like an awful lot of hearsay to me.


Yes, you are right. It is all hearsay, and from me, the deamed cheater and exploiter, it must be a lie.
100 Human Priest
18555
I don't actually recall Blizzard 'celebrating' your communities. Could you point out to me where that happened? Or are you talking about the ill-considered wow insider profile? That site isn't owned by Blizzard, you know. Was he 'invited' because he cheats at AV? Or because he bought one of those sever blades they sold for charity? Or did he just go on a tour? Because this sounds like an awful lot of hearsay to me.


Yes, you are right. It is all hearsay, and from me, the deamed cheater and exploiter, it must be a lie.
I'm not saying it's a lie just because you said it. I'm saying that I don't see any evidence that it's true. If Blizzard has 'celebrated' AV premades, there must be a link to it somewhere?
What on earth makes you think I've used oQueue?


this does

Does it make you feel better to imagine that the dev that made your pub stomps slghtly more diffcult was one of the 'ragequits' that oQueue keeps track of?


You don't like Rathamus or Tiny or the public vent much do you?
No, I don't. I think their 'playstyle' is lazy and self-centered.

But why do you think I have to have used the addon to know about that feature?
12/04/2012 09:00 AMPosted by Xaeva
My point about your stats is not 'you play AV a lot' but 'you win AV far more than you do any other battleground; doesn't that maybe suggest that you've got an unreasonable advantage there'? Your win ratio in in AV is absurd. It's only possible because Blizzard can't match your 40 man premade against another 40 man premade, which is why they don't permit raids in unrated battlegrounds at all. The entire strategy is based around the assumption that the other team will be an uncoorinated pug. That's why it works. That is the only reason: you are all on vent and the other team just met. Don't believe me? Well then why do you guys have such a miserable record on the rare occasions that you've happened to be matched against other 40 man premades?


My win ratio is because that is the BG I learn a strat for and was trying to teach to others.
The "other" BG wins and losses are when I was that random person being stomped by the alliance.
What miserable record are you referring to? We have gone up against several alliance premades. Some famous, some not so famous.
Was there a certain loss you were refering to?
Sure. There've been quite a few posted about on the forums. Most of those threads have been deleted since. But that's actually beside the point; if you play in a 40 man premade, you always win unless you face another one. That isn't how Blizzard has said they want the game to work. They don't want 40 man premades to be mandatory to enjoy a casual pvp option.
Edited by Cylthia on 12/4/2012 9:25 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
12/04/2012 09:21 AMPosted by Cylthia
No, I don't. I think their 'playstyle' is lazy and self-centered.


What is lazy and self-centered about it?
90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
12/04/2012 09:21 AMPosted by Cylthia
Sure. There've been quite a few posted about on the forums. Most of those threads have been deleted since. But that's actually beside the point; if you play in a 40 man premade, you always win unless you face another one. That isn't how Blizzard has said they want the game to work. They don't want 40 man premades to be mandatory to enjoy a casual pvp option


Oh now it is a "casual pvp option".
When did PVP become "casual"?
Never mind don't bother to answer.
It doesn't matter anymore.
The "Rules" around here are changing faster than in-game.
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