The recent LFR bosses killed being hidden...

85 Night Elf Warrior
0
They just need to be more aggressive towards people who ditch LFR mid-run. Do it, and do it in its entirety or don't show up. Something like a 48-hour lock out for bailing out mid-run should go a long way towards keeping people from ditching at the first hint of the possibility of trouble.
Edited by Feandel on 12/3/2012 10:48 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
6570
12/03/2012 10:47 AMPosted by Feandel
They just need to be more aggressive towards people who ditch LFR mid-run. Do it, and do it in its entirety or don't show up. Something like a 48-hour lock out for bailing out mid-run should go a long way towards keeping people from ditching at the first hint of the possibility of trouble.


Why?

Being able to ditch the run is a feature, and it isn't going to change the fact that a check mark for 'Get a clean run' means that you will NEVER have a run finish the raid ever again. People won't care if there's a deserter debuff, and they generally have a legitimate reason (most of them are ditching because they already got the other bosses).
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90 Worgen Death Knight
9405
As a tank, I have a lot of control in LFR of whether or not it will be a "fail run", so I really don't mind taking partial raids. Some of the best runs I've gotten so far were with an inexperienced off-tank who asked me in whispers about how to tank each fight. That run was one of the best on record.

As for the fresh run queue. . . . I took one partial run, completed it, and then requeued an additional three more times. Each one of those three runs were fresh. And before you ask, I was queuing so I could use my coins on more rolls for the axe off the last boss.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
0
They just need to be more aggressive towards people who ditch LFR mid-run.


This would punish good players trapped with morons, and make it almost impossible to escape. This would be unacceptable.


No, it would punish people who use the first excuse at hand to bail on a whim because everything isn't perfectly peachy for a walk-in-the-park loot-pinata. Shocking, but that's not something *should* be encouraged.

-edit-

I'm talking about people who walk at the first wipe, not groups that wipes repeatedly on trash, bosses, etc. It's not that difficult to distinguish between who is jump-happy because they don't want to put forth anything more than the bare minimum effort to win...and who is actually giving a group a fair chance.
Edited by Feandel on 12/3/2012 3:18 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
13785
12/03/2012 03:15 PMPosted by Feandel
It's not that difficult to distinguish between who is jump-happy because they don't want to put forth anything more than the bare minimum effort to win...and who is actually giving a group a fair chance.


For us watching them in action... yes very easy to see.

For an automated system to differentiate... not so much. I suppose you could put a tally counter on "X attempts" before lifting the restriction, but that just encourages the same tools and jerks to abuse wipes or even dying themselves to flee early, no punishment.

You can only legislate human behavior so far, and while I would love for stricter punishments to be added to those that do things to deliberately wipe the group or simply skip out on a whim... it isn't exactly something easy to do that isn't also abuse worthy or overly restrictive on people that aren't really abusing anything.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
I do, but I queue one time, because I'm not spending all day queueing to hopefully get all the bosses. I queue once. Fresh run? I start pulling when reasonably appropriate. Dead boss or bosses? I don't stick around to find out why the previous tank quit on them. I simply do likewise and either do dailies or do something else entirely.


Given that you can queue for dailies while in queue, queue for Scenarios while in queue, etc., you're making even less sense now.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
"Doesn't do like Slashlove" = "not making sense".


If you weren't doing dailies/this other stuff while queuing already, you were not doing anything for this "valuable limited time", and considering you've been doing crap all for dailies/scenarios/dungeons/challenges/anything else, it's tending more and more to "I sit around chatting in /g and then talk about how limited and precious my time is".

You're welcome to sit around chatting all day if that's what you find fun, but if you bring your limited time into a justification and you're deliberately choosing to waste your limited time, then you actually ARE making no sense.

Especialy since you're not exactly even doing LFR overall anyway.
Edited by Slashlove on 12/3/2012 5:40 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13385
So I read the thread all the way through, and the only thing that's stuck with me is the mental picture of Fean chasing his cat around with a SuperSoaker. That seems a reasonable return on my time investment.
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12/03/2012 08:27 PMPosted by Feanorion
failed run


I like how you keep ignoring the people telling you that a raid missing people is not necessarily a failed run. You have the same odds of it being a failed run as you do zoning into a fresh raid with bad players.
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90 Human Paladin
12855
So, I just did both halves of MV LFR with a tank friend. After Elegon, the other tank and a couple DPS took off, presumably because they'd already done the third boss. Immediately, one of the new DPS whined, "You mean it doesn't warn you now when you get a fail group?"

I said, "We haven't wiped at all yet," and a bunch of random people chimed in that it was good/suprisingly non-fail/etc. ;) Unfortunately, the new tank hadn't been there before, and even though my tank friend explained the fight to him, he didn't really get the hang of it. I had put up markers, and had to yell at him to take his boss to green, etc., and he was really squishy. We wiped, and it turned out he was wearing his tree gear. Slash, you may be right that people *can* tank even heroic raids in int gear, but this guy couldn't. <.<

2nd attempt went a lot better, but he failed at dancing, and we didn't have a 2nd bres for him. My friend had to tank both of them on top of each other, still got it down though.

Personally, I'm not generally worried I'll get a fail run if it's a partially complete one, but I am worried I'll have it pop while they have a boss encounter in progress, and I'll get locked out of loot since I can't zone in. It's only happened twice so far to me, but I've seen it for a lot of other people.

Feandel, I hardly ever leave a group early, but occasionally something comes up in RL, or my guild or a friend needs me for something. I usually even do the rest of the run when I requeue after a partial. I completely disagree that a 24 or 48 hour ban is reasonable.

Fazhih, about half the partial runs I've completed have given me another partial run afterward this x-pac. All but one of them were before this change, so I was able to reject them.
Edited by Mistana on 12/3/2012 9:13 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
I simply do not enjoy the thought of dropping in to a failed run, then having to queue all over again to re-start a raid I already finished. I further explained that doing them in the proper order is also a (small) factor.


There's nothing stopping you from doing the full run in the proper order the 2nd time, except that you ARE in fact concerned with "maximising your WoW-loot".
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85 Human Paladin
7460
12/03/2012 03:15 PMPosted by Feandel
No, it would punish people who use the first excuse at hand to bail on a whim because everything isn't perfectly peachy for a walk-in-the-park loot-pinata. Shocking, but that's not something *should* be encouraged.


Sorry I have to agree with Feanorion on this one. It's punishing players. Some people will quit a failing raid but enough stay to pull in more hapless doomed (by the whim of the LFR queue gods) souls into their failing raid. Then more people quite after a few wipes but not enough to keep a new set of doomed people from being sucked into witnessing their soul crushing moronics.

There was a blue post that contained the words
this may seem underhanded...


to which someone replied
because it is underhanded


Whatever though if they follow through and practically guarantee a fresh run for sticking it out
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85 Night Elf Warrior
0
12/03/2012 11:51 PMPosted by Fangthane
Whatever though if they follow through and practically guarantee a fresh run for sticking it out


Except that it just perpetuates the "partial run" problem right on down the chain. Great so now you get a fresh run for your next queue (wait for it...wait for it...wait for it). And then you bail once you're done because why is anyone going to keep rolling up on bosses that can't award anything? Oh...that's right. They won't. New people replace them for yet *another* partial run and the cycle repeats.

There needs to be a level of accountability placed on the people who ditch mid-run. Right now there's exactly zero. Which is *why* people typically ditch the second things don't go exactly how they want, because they can and absolutely nothing happens when they do.
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
15935
I've quit after two bosses because of real life. Or because I'm bored. I think in many cases other people do the same, which is why you see so many 2/6 runs. At this point I think most people know the last bosses in each part of LFR well enough that 2/6 runs probably won't be due to wiping.
Edited by Murdina on 12/4/2012 11:43 AM PST
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