Crusader Strike as Holy.

90 Human Paladin
8725
Why do I have to do this. No seriously. It's not a cool, good, or an interesting dynamic. It's a bad stop gap for a really talent/spell that gives us more holy power.

Seriously change the Illumination glyph to allow Judgement to give Holy Power or something.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10520
The idea is to give you more Holy Power, but for the trade off of being in melee. Giving you a 2nd holy power generator you could use on CD with no disadvantages isn't fun game design and would just buff Holy when it's already a strong, viable spec. It would also solidify holy as the top tank healer in the game (well more so than they already are).

Edit: why are you whining about blizzard giving you more resource generating abilities anyways?
Edited by Eikocarol on 11/26/2012 5:00 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
8725
The idea is to give you more Holy Power, but for the trade off of being in melee. Giving you a 2nd holy power generator you could use on CD with no disadvantages isn't fun game design and would just buff Holy when it's already a strong, viable spec. It would also solidify holy as the top tank healer in the game (well more so than they already are).

Edit: why are you whining about blizzard giving you more resource generating abilities anyways?


I really don't like the mechanic of it. putting it on judgement might be a touch OP. It's really the only thing I can think of it for it.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10520
I really don't like the mechanic of it. putting it on judgement might be a touch OP. It's really the only thing I can think of it for it.


It would mostly likely be a bit game breaking. The extra HoPo regen isn't supposedly to be game breaking, but it falls into a similarity like atonement in that it is really strong in how it can scale (atonement) with damage buffs. The extra HoPo regen can work well for more efficient healing and better burst, if you have good rng or can line it up with holy avenger.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10265
Why do I have to do this. No seriously. It's not a cool, good, or an interesting dynamic. It's a bad stop gap for a really talent/spell that gives us more holy power.

Seriously change the Illumination glyph to allow Judgement to give Holy Power or something.


No. Just No. Don't. Stop it. STOP IT!

We are not supposed to use CS, that's why we don't have hit rating. We get Denounce, Holy Shock, and Judgment as our attacks, everything else requires hit rating.

CS as a HP builder is intended for Ret and Prot.
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1 Blood Elf Warrior
0
Holy does not use CS anymore....not since Cata.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10520
@Pooz
It definitely still has a place as HP generator.
Edited by Eikocarol on 11/26/2012 5:28 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10265
11/26/2012 05:08 PMPosted by Eikocarol
I really don't like the mechanic of it. putting it on judgement might be a touch OP. It's really the only thing I can think of it for it.


[quote]but it falls into a similarity like atonement in that it is really strong in how it can scale (atonement) with damage buffs.


Holy Paladins hit like wet noodles, that's why we don't take Battle Healer as a major glyph. Nothing similar to atonement or anything of the sort scales our healing power.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10265
@Pooz
It definitely still has a place as HP generator.

@Radiant Light
Holy paladins have a passive 15% hit meaning they are hit capped and can hit the boss with any spells (including Hammer of Wrath, Judgment, and Crusader Strike)


No we don't.

We have a passive called Holy Insight:

Holy Insight
Requires Paladin (Holy)
Requires level 10
Increases the effectiveness of your healing by 25%.

Increases your mana pool by 400%.

Allows 50% of your mana regeneration from Spirit to continue while in combat.

Increases your chance to hit with Holy Shock, Judgment, and Denounce by 15%.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10520
My apologies you're right. You still have a chance to generate holy power so I don't see why you wouldn't use it, especially if you're trying to burst with holy avenger.

Editting my previous post.

11/26/2012 05:22 PMPosted by Radiantlight
Holy Paladins hit like wet noodles, that's why we don't take Battle Healer as a major glyph. Nothing similar to atonement or anything of the sort scales our healing power.


I wasn't comparing battle healer and atonement. I was comparing the fact that it's another way to doing something beneficial that isn't required of your toolkit.

According to blizzard, Disc priests don't have to smite (they're bad if they don't, but blizzard claims so). In the same sense holy paladins are the same way with holy power generation from CS when they can, or for burst phases with Holy Avenger (may apply to 10m more than 25m).
Edited by Eikocarol on 11/26/2012 5:28 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10265
11/26/2012 05:26 PMPosted by Eikocarol
You still have a chance to generate holy power so I don't see why you wouldn't use it, especially if you're trying to burst with holy avenger.


Because it costs a GCD and mana for the RNG risky chance of generating a single HP (or 3 if you currently have Holy Avenger active or specced Divine).

Seriously, it costs more mana than a Holy Light. If you have a 15% chance to miss (not including being dodged, parried, blocked) it seriously is not worth the expenditure, and if you're doing it consistently throughout a fight, you're consuming your precious mana resource for pretty much no gain. If you have Holy Avenger active, then your HR/LoD|WoG/HS/LoD|WoG burst rotation only leaves 0.8 seconds before HS comes off cooldown again. If you're running 4p it is already off cooldown, and in 5.1 at 4s, it will be off cooldown even faster.

I wasn't comparing battle healer and atonement. I was comparing the fact that it's another way to doing something beneficial that isn't required of your toolkit.


It's another way of being a bad player. We are not set up to use CS, and doing so is simply detrimental to your HPS/HPM and overall efficiency/performance as a healer.

According to blizzard, Disc priests don't have to smite (they're bad if they don't, but blizzard claims so). In the same sense holy paladins are the same way with holy power generation from CS when they can, or for burst phases with Holy Avenger (may apply to 10m more than 25m).


Yes, but Smite and Atonement are actually designed from the ground up to work as a healing mechanic. Just as Monks can melee and heal. That is not how Paladins are designed.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10595
If you need to use CS to generate HP, you're doing it wrong.
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90 Tauren Priest
12030
11/26/2012 05:36 PMPosted by Radiantlight
Seriously, it costs more mana than a Holy Light. If you have a 15% chance to miss (not including being dodged, parried, blocked) it seriously is not worth the expenditure, and if you're doing it consistently throughout a fight, you're consuming your precious mana resource for pretty much no gain.


As a Priest I find this offensive.

3k mana per Crusader Strike is practically nothing. You gain that back in a second with enough Spirit.

Free cast for increased healing when you need it? Where can I join the line for this ride?
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10520
You do realize base mana is based off ret and not holy right? its 1% of your base mana for CS and less for holy light.
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90 Tauren Priest
12030
11/26/2012 07:20 PMPosted by Radiantlight
As a Priest I find this offensive.


Then you're an idiot.

Your heals are insanely cheap compared to paladin spells -

Heal: 1.9% base mana, 9848 to 11443 (+ 102.4% of SpellPower)
Holy Light: 12.6% base mana, 8390 to 9347 (+ 78.5% of SpellPower).

Greater Heal: 5.9% of base mana, 21022 to 24430 (+ 219% of SpellPower).
Divine Light: 36.0% of base mana, 15910 to 17725 (+ 149% of SpellPower).

Crusader Strike: 15.0% of base mana

Free cast for increased healing when you need it? Where can I join the line for this ride?


Like I said. Idiot. I can cast 5 Holy Lights for the cost of 2 Crusader Strikes, and Crusader Strike is a highly likely to miss, be dodged, blocked, or parried and hence generate no HP.

Shadowfiend: 30% MAX mana every 3 minutes, 60% every six minutes
Divine Plea: 12% MAX mana every 2 minutes, 36% every six minutes

OMG Holy Paladin so OP.

We are balanced around our HP and beacon, you idiot, MANA is much more precious to us than it is to you because we use it much more quickly, and everything we do has to be done as efficiently as possible.


Awe, you're cute. I just wanna pinch your widdle cheeksies. :3

/pinch
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
Lol, this guy. He doesn't even know how base mana works.

IDIOT.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13170
If you're going to pretend to be a "big bad" behind the computer screen at least use better insults, because your incompetence is becoming most taxing. And researching your own class also helps before you try to teach others.

Just a tip.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10265
Lol, this guy. He doesn't even know how base mana works.

IDIOT.


Paladins have a base mana pool 1/5th of priests. Do I need to spell that out for you too?

Heal: 1.9% base mana, 9848 to 11443 (+ 102.4% of SpellPower)
Holy Light: 12.6% base mana, 8390 to 9347 (+ 78.5% of SpellPower).

OR

Heal: 5700 mana, 9848 to 11443 (+ 102.4% of SpellPower)
Holy Light: 7560 mana, 8390 to 9347 (+ 78.5% of SpellPower).

Greater Heal: 17700 mana, 21022 to 24430 (+ 219% of SpellPower).
Divine Light: 21600 mana, 15910 to 17725 (+ 149% of SpellPower).

Get it yet? I figured that you were capable of the basic math. You know, cuz you are here telling paladins how to play their class.

Your spells are cheaper, heal for more, and scale better with gear.

We are balanced around HP and beacon, and mana is more precious to us than you since we go through it more quickly, and further, we have less regen options.
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