World of Warcraft®

If you're going to pretend to be a "big bad" behind the computer screen at least use better insults, because your incompetence is becoming most taxing. And researching your own class also helps before you try to teach others.

Just a tip.

Shut it. You clearly didn't bother doing the math either. Lazy.

If you're going to pretend to be a "big bad" behind the computer screen at least use better insults, because your incompetence is becoming most taxing. And researching your own class also helps before you try to teach others.

Just a tip.

Shut it. You clearly didn't bother doing the math either. Lazy.

Oooh, burn. You might want to take your own advice kid.

I'm sure you'd appreciate it if shamans and paladins started advising druids and priests to heal in bad ways with complete ignorance of target class mechanics.

Holy Paladins do not use CS for very good reasons. Stop telling those who don't know better to use it.

I'm sure you'd appreciate it if shamans and paladins started advising druids and priests to heal in bad ways with complete ignorance of target class mechanics.

Holy Paladins do not use CS for very good reasons. Stop telling those who don't know better to use it.

There's a difference in giving advice and giving bad advice. If someone was advising a druid wrongfully, I'd call them out on it. Doesn't matter to me what class someone is posting on, it's the information their providing (or not providing) that I look at.

11/26/2012 08:24 PMPosted by Veroicone

There's a difference in giving advice and giving bad advice. If someone was advising a druid wrongfully, I'd call them out on it. Doesn't matter to me what class someone is posting on, it's the information their providing (or not providing) that I look at.

I won't disagree with that. In this case, the advice given was and is woefully wrong. Then a priest of all classes wants to complain about spell costs and mana return (in complete failure to consider the package as a whole). I get tired the number of times I have to point out that sure, we get heals from Holy Power, and we get some extra healing from beacon transfer, but all our spells by default cost more, heal less, and have worse scaling.

Crusader Strike, as a holy paladin, remains one of the most misguided things a player can try to do.

I haven't used CS as a HP generator since Cata. You aren't supposed to use it at all as holy.

Any priest telling you otherwise is wrong.

Holy paladins should be in melee range when its say anyways. Mana return....

Your not supposed to use it on cooldown, but if you have a window to do so, then why not? Extra hopo is extra healing.

Also, if you EF blanket then its going to be used on CD.

Holy paladins should be in melee range when its say anyways. Mana return....

Your not supposed to use it on cooldown, but if you have a window to do so, then why not? Extra hopo is extra healing.

Also, if you EF blanket then its going to be used on CD.

Let me reiterate. Crusader Strike: 15% mana, Holy Light 12.9%. Melee you have a 7.5% chance to miss a lvl 93 mob, and a 7.5% chance to be dodged. This means that 15% of attacks are going to miss or be dodged, even assuming you are behind the boss. This means that the effective price of that 1 HP, assuming you CS throughout the fight, is 10.4k mana. It also costs 1 GCD per attempt. This also means that 15% of your GCDs used are wasted. Let's say a fight lasts 10 minutes. CS has a 4.5 second cooldown, which gives 133 CS's generating 113 HP, for 1,383,200 mana.

3EF has a maximum throughput of about 222237 including mastery and beacon crit and haste effects with 0% overhealing, 0% overwriting.

With the HP generated from CS you can cast 37 more of those, for 8,222,769 healing or 5.9 HPM.

In comparison, Holy Light costs 7560 mana and heals (including beacon, 0% overhealing, 0% overwriting) for 62860 for 8.314 HPM.

The only way you can possible make this a good use of mana is if you are rocking the 4p PVP bonus, specced into Divine Purpose (haven't mathed that), or only doing it during Holy Avenger (in which case you should be using HR and HS anyway).

But suggesting it is good practice in general is just woefully ignorant, terrible advice.

you guys are the best.

Yeah, I think my numbers are slightly wrong, but the point is made (hey, I'm tired). You need a good reason to try CS for HP, because by default it is not an efficient use of mana.

The only way you can possible make this a good use of mana is if you are rocking the 4p PVP bonus, specced into Divine Purpose (haven't mathed that), or only doing it during Holy Avenger (in which case you should be using HR and HS anyway).

But suggesting it is good practice in general is just woefully ignorant, terrible advice.

Or there isn't much, if any, damage going out.

Elegon orb phases (and even the initial few seconds of the pylon phase)
First ~minute of Will (perhaps not on Heroic, I have no idea then)
Between Epicenters on Feng p1, works especially well considering you'll probably already be stacked in a non-lfr group
Gara'jal after BoPing a tank, perhaps. Though this fight is drastically different due to the Spiritual Innervation so you probably wouldn't care about a few extra HoPo during this time.

Imperial Vizier - Convert platform between Converts, perhaps between abilities in p3, though you might want to just regen for those few seconds, not really sure.

Protectors - early on in each phase might be a decent time to store some HoPo.
Tsulong - maybe store some HoPo right before Day while there's low damage going out
Lei Shi - add phase/normal phase if the tanks are stable enough.
Sha of Fear - plenty of time based on what I've seen in LFR, dunno how much more raid damage goes out in Normal/Heroic.

I had to stretch a bit for some of those, but those are situations in which I might, as a priest, swap into Chastise to do some DPS, but as a Paladin you can do the same while storing some of your HoPo to power up your healing once the damage resumes/starts. Granted, your other damaging abilities might be more suited, and I can't say that I know how gcd locked you'd be while offensively going for HoPo generation.

11/26/2012 06:21 PMPosted by Milkmesoftly

Seriously, it costs more mana than a Holy Light. If you have a 15% chance to miss (not including being dodged, parried, blocked) it seriously is not worth the expenditure, and if you're doing it consistently throughout a fight, you're consuming your precious mana resource for pretty much no gain.

As a Priest I find this offensive.

3k mana per Crusader Strike is practically nothing. You gain that back in a second with enough Spirit.

Free cast for increased healing when you need it? Where can I join the line for this ride?

It is 9k for Holy.

If I happen to be in melee range and I happen to need the holy power and happen to be ok on mana and happen to be using the pvp 4-set, then I'll Crusader Strike. Not really otherwise.

At the risk of adding fuel to the fire, here are specific examples where cs is used to great success this tier.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/kvkdego18k53e9tk/sum/healingDone/?s=12416&e=12760#Ephogy

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/j4g3t561ts17l10w/details/10/?s=2058&e=2427

Now both of them are using the pvp 4pc which is a different problem all together, but the fact is...and the rankings back this up...whenever you want to roll eternal flame hots on the raid, any and all holy power you can get is welcome, including that generated by cs.

At the risk of adding fuel to the fire, here are specific examples where cs is used to great success this tier.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/kvkdego18k53e9tk/sum/healingDone/?s=12416&e=12760#Ephogy

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/j4g3t561ts17l10w/details/10/?s=2058&e=2427

Now both of them are using the pvp 4pc which is a different problem all together, but the fact is...and the rankings back this up...whenever you want to roll eternal flame hots on the raid, any and all holy power you can get is welcome, including that generated by cs.

Yep. Like I said, if you're rocking 4pc PVP, have Holy Avenger up, or MAYBE are specced into Divine Purpose (haven't done the math on that) THEN you might CS. Because those talents and EF blanketing completely change the play style and spell weights. Outside of that, it's not mana efficient.

I'm pretty sure at some point the hot fixed healers to have a 15% hit rating on all spells.

11/27/2012 01:53 PMPosted by Tenala

I'm pretty sure at some point the hot fixed healers to have a 15% hit rating on all spells.

NTMK.

11/27/2012 02:01 PMPosted by Radiantlight

I'm pretty sure at some point the hot fixed healers to have a 15% hit rating on all spells.

NTMK.

Log in and look at your hit rating.

11/27/2012 02:01 PMPosted by Tenala

NTMK.

Log in and look at your hit rating.

I'm at work. Armoury shows 0.55% though.

I know I can miss with cs even behind the boss. In front it seems like I miss/get parried/dodged as often as I hit. CS is a situational ability, but it does have its uses. It is a relatively cheap way of building holy power for EF, or banking hp for burst in those gcd's where not much is happening. It also works very well with holy avenger, as has been mentioned.

It should not be used all the time, and in some fights not at all, but then again not all fights call for hand of salvation, or protection, but that doesn't make them useless. It still remains a viable tool to use when the situation calls for it.