Crusader Strike as Holy.

90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
The only patch note I can find refering to this is a hot fix in 5.0.5 which made our passive work correctly (which only affects HS, Denounce, and Judgment)

"Paladin
Holy Paladins should now get the intended 15% bonus to spell hit."

As a side note, it seems like Blizzard hotfixed the 4p PVP bonus to not proc Divine Purpose (which was how it was being used to blanket EF).
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
9320
11/27/2012 02:19 PMPosted by Radiantlight
As a side note, it seems like Blizzard hotfixed the 4p PVP bonus to not proc Divine Purpose (which was how it was being used to blanket EF).


Glad to hear it, although this only solves a rather small portion of the problem. Take a look at the first log I linked. You will see that his pvp 4pc gave him 80 holy power during that fight, and he had 21 divine purpose procs. That still leaves 59 hp he would have gotten from the hotfixed pvp 4pc.

He also cast holy shock 49 times. The pve 4pc would cut his hs cd by 2 sec, allowing for ~1/3 more holy shocks, or 16 extra holy power. This shows that the pvp 4pc still has dramatically higher hp generation in pve, and will continue to be overpowered until it is changed.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
11/27/2012 02:29 PMPosted by Corvala
As a side note, it seems like Blizzard hotfixed the 4p PVP bonus to not proc Divine Purpose (which was how it was being used to blanket EF).


Glad to hear it, although this only solves a rather small portion of the problem. Take a look at the first log I linked. You will see that his pvp 4pc gave him 80 holy power during that fight, and he had 21 divine purpose procs. That still leaves 59 hp he would have gotten from the hotfixed pvp 4pc.


Yeah, from what I can tell, DP funded WoG/EF is not generating HP through the PVP 4 set, which means you would (assuming 25% proc rate) lose 1/4 your HP generation or around 20HP. But it isn't straight up subtraction, I don't think. Since there would be less DP procs as well, so you want to take that 20 HP, then take off the difference between 1/4 of 80 (20) and 1/4 of 60 (15), so that's another 5 HP that came from the circular benefit.

That would give about 55 HP.
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90 Worgen Druid
4810
I picked up about 3 million additional healing done (approximately an 18% increase in total healing done) using CS to aide in EF output for H-Protectors of the Endless 25m (first half of phase 1 only). While it would be much more with the 4pc, this is one of those situations where using CS appears to be optimal play.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
9320
Since there would be less DP procs as well, so you want to take that 20 HP, then take off the difference between 1/4 of 80 (20) and 1/4 of 60 (15), so that's another 5 HP that came from the circular benefit.

That would give about 55 HP.


Either way, still dramatically more holy power over the course of the fight then he would have gotten from even the new pve 4pc, which makes pretty much zero sense.

11/27/2012 03:44 PMPosted by Duboomchikin
I picked up about 3 million additional healing done (approximately an 18% increase in total healing done) using CS to aide in EF output for H-Protectors of the Endless 25m (first half of phase 1 only). While it would be much more with the 4pc, this is one of those situations where using CS appears to be optimal play.


Same here, that fight has a very garalon-like persistent dot that makes EF shine. Even with the potential misses, and the mana cost, you can make a strong case for cs just because of the strength of EF. Even moreso with the pvp 4pc...its pretty much a slam dunk
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90 Worgen Druid
4810
I still got fairly angry on any attempt that I would miss 2 CS or more =)
But yeah, the debuffs come out at a pace that lends itself to EF usage, even without the 4pc. The 4pc would make is sustainable for significantly longer (though I'm pretty sure you would want to abandon it for HR/LoD at some point)
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
9320
From what i've experienced, it's a close call. Assuming you can keep EF overhealing under control, keep in mind every tick of EF also translates into beacon healing, as well as applying mastery bubbles. So in any instance where the next 30 sec will see constant damage to a target, and constant healing needed through beacon, EF stacks up quite well against LoD, even without the pvp 4pc.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5765
I see 15% on my character sheet in game. Maybe I'm just lucky.
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90 Worgen Druid
4810
11/27/2012 05:29 PMPosted by Tenala
I see 15% on my character sheet in game. Maybe I'm just lucky.


15% what? I R confused =(
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
9320
Indeed we do...15% spell hit. CS is a melee swing and works off the melee hit table, which is different. We have 0% melee hit by default
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90 Worgen Druid
4810
11/27/2012 04:43 PMPosted by Corvala
From what i've experienced, it's a close call. Assuming you can keep EF overhealing under control, keep in mind every tick of EF also translates into beacon healing, as well as applying mastery bubbles. So in any instance where the next 30 sec will see constant damage to a target, and constant healing needed through beacon, EF stacks up quite well against LoD, even without the pvp 4pc.


If you're saying that I shouldn't "abandon" EF as soon as I am, I would have to disagree. After the first half of P1 there are well over a dozen debuffs out and other sources of raid damage that make EF blanketing sub-optimal (unless, I suppose, you are literally filling the role of a druid/monk for the encounter)
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90 Worgen Druid
4810
11/27/2012 05:52 PMPosted by Corvala
Indeed we do...15% spell hit. CS is a melee swing and works off the melee hit table, which is different. We have 0% melee hit by default


I'm actually curious about this since character sheet says 15% spell hit, but holy insight only provides 15% hit to Judgment, denounce, and Holy Shock.

hmmm. . . .
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
11/27/2012 05:52 PMPosted by Corvala
Indeed we do...15% spell hit. CS is a melee swing and works off the melee hit table, which is different. We have 0% melee hit by default


Good point, Corvala!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
11/27/2012 05:58 PMPosted by Duboomchikin
Indeed we do...15% spell hit. CS is a melee swing and works off the melee hit table, which is different. We have 0% melee hit by default


I'm actually curious about this since character sheet says 15% spell hit, but holy insight only provides 15% hit to Judgment, denounce, and Holy Shock.

hmmm. . . .


Do we have any other hostile spells that require hit rating? I think everything else is melee hit anyway? Judgment is melee, I know that.
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90 Worgen Druid
4810
Holy prism, reckoning, Exec sentence, HoW are the ones that came to mind. No idea how each is classified tbh.
Edited by Duboomchikin on 11/27/2012 6:12 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
11/27/2012 06:11 PMPosted by Duboomchikin
Holy prism, reckoning, Exec sentence, HoW are the ones that came to mind. No idea how each is classified tbh.


Reckoning is melee hit (I think all taunts are melee)

I've missed with HoW, but it is likely melee as well.
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85 Draenei Shaman
9255

Awe, you're cute. I just wanna pinch your widdle cheeksies. :3

/pinch


Lol, you're cute because you think CS is 3k mana. Its 9k, sweetie. Maybe you will do some research before typing.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
9320
Lol, you're cute because you think CS is 3k mana. Its 9k, sweetie. Maybe you will do some research before typing.


Hostile much?

On a different note...im pretty sure judgement is based off the spell hit table. Could be wrong tho...maby I should do my research before typing eh?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Judgment's been a melee/ranged (it literally uses aspects of both) ability since... like, Wrath.

So no, it uses melee hit. It's still always hit capped for Holy though, for obvious reasons.


Reasons being less obvious now that we don't have JoP to manage. It doesn't return mana on hit either, as it's a ranged (not a melee) attack, but uses melee hit.

It really is kind of pointless without taking the talent that goes with it.
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