[PvP] Feral next in line for nerfs?

90 Tauren Warrior
15625
Doesn't chaos sometimes proc to be instant too?
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90 Goblin Mage
6940
12/04/2012 12:43 PMPosted by Conclusion


I heard pressing buttons is hard.



You're doing something wrong. I suggest you seek help in the warrior forums.


You act like I can stop everything, I'm no pro player. Eventually a spell will hit me, and sometimes its the spells that hit hard.


I'm saying i haven't seen any warriors been 1 shot by that while having second wind + sword & board in def stance.
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100 Tauren Druid
20770
Problem is of course is that whatever happens ... PvE will be in the firing line.... nerfing CD stacking? There goes our needed burst in the burst phases. Nerfing damage? Ok... so we become less desirable to take.... Nerfing direct damage? GL with the elegon orbs....

Buff bleed? Watch the QQ about ferals being able to bleed and run resurface.

Remove PS/Cyclone combo? There goes our practical CC.... (practical as in, our only other reliable CC is Maim, and gl trying to get that off whilst still doing any damage)

Whatever is done will have a massive negative impact somewhere... and will probably break the spec in one way or another.
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90 Troll Druid
6705
To bad using one of those spell reflects uses macros and cd's


I heard pressing buttons is hard.

Chaos easily one shots through second wind.


You're doing something wrong. I suggest you seek help in the warrior forums.


You're an idiot. Second Wind is a passive HoT, nothing more. It doesn't give any damage reduction, and it doesn't even heal for that much. You can easily kill a Warrior through it with anything that hits for more than 70k. Starsurge, Chaos Bolt, Ice Lance, etc etc.

I'm saying i haven't seen any warriors been 1 shot by that while having second wind + sword & board in def stance.


It's not hard, really.

With Glyph of Gag Order no longer effective in PvP, Warriors are in a great place. Their burst is easily countered by anyone with a brain (roughly 10% of all players) and is tied to 3+ minute cooldowns, just like Boomkins, Ferals, and Locks. Spell Reflect isn't a problem, learn how to not cast when it's up or just Soothe it off - works for all kinds of reflects and Grounding Totem.

Going into Defensive Stance means they do absolutely no damage, which is the exact same justification we were all using when everyone complained about Feral having Bear CDs for survivability in seasons past. Now a Warrior is using the same argument for his cooldowns and suddenly it's a problem? Go home, please.

12/04/2012 12:47 PMPosted by Conclusion
Doesn't chaos sometimes proc to be instant too?


Nope.

Feral still has lots of time-on-target since we're able to shift out of roots again, which means the only thing that can stop our burst is classes with a spammable CC that actually effects us: Fears, Hibernate and Cyclone.
Edited by Bootzilla on 12/4/2012 2:38 PM PST
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90 Tauren Warrior
15625


You act like I can stop everything, I'm no pro player. Eventually a spell will hit me, and sometimes its the spells that hit hard.


I'm saying i haven't seen any warriors been 1 shot by that while having second wind + sword & board in def stance.


Second wind kicks in around 130k health(don't know the exact health number)...I get hit by attacks for over that all the time.

sword and board is a protection passive ability that resets the CD of shield slam....
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90 Troll Druid
6705
12/04/2012 02:43 PMPosted by Conclusion
sword and board is a protection passive ability that resets the CD of shield slam....


Sword and board is also a casual term referring to a sword and a shield.
Edited by Bootzilla on 12/4/2012 2:52 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
5900
A warrior in defensive stance with a shield/1h macro to equip can still die easy....
Yea it takes a little more work but outside their CD's they drop like a rock.
Healing reduction debuffs and a DK's necrotic strike can prevent second wind from healing much.
A warrior in 1h/shield defensive stance will not do any damage to be able to kill anything.

Just use your 150k chaos spell to 1 shot him through second wind.
Against a warrior save your CD's for when second wind kicks in.

Having trouble killing a warrior? Is he giving you problems because hes using CD's smartly? Switch to his partner. Either he stays in no damage stance or he switches back and you just switch back to the warrior.

This is almost word-for-word the exact same argument we were trying to make for Bear Form + Frenzied Regen in PvP.

Bears got nerfed anyway.

If Blizz is at all consistent with their design decisions, Warriors' defensive stance will probably get nerfed in PvP too.

But then again, we all know how consistent Blizz is with PvP...
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90 Troll Druid
6705
Defensive Stance isn't a problem though. Almost every class has strong defensive cooldowns that allow them to survive while being trained, they're necessary in a game where your 370k health pool can drop to 0 in 4 seconds. Why are we targeting Warriors out of everybody?
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87 Human Rogue
5775
12/04/2012 04:19 PMPosted by Bootzilla
Defensive Stance isn't a problem though. Almost every class has strong defensive cooldowns that allow them to survive while being trained, they're necessary in a game where your 370k health pool can drop to 0 in 4 seconds. Why are we targeting Warriors out of everybody?


"/cry" - ele shamans
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90 Goblin Mage
6940
12/04/2012 02:29 PMPosted by Bootzilla
You're an idiot. Second Wind is a passive HoT, nothing more. It doesn't give any damage reduction, and it doesn't even heal for that much. You can easily kill a Warrior through it with anything that hits for more than 70k. Starsurge, Chaos Bolt, Ice Lance, etc etc.


Hey, don't blame me because you were dropped on your head. We're talking about Second wind + defensive stance. In any case, a comparison was drawn to a warrior in this thread, a justified one, to demonstrate the overall strength the warrior class has and it's being derailed. Try to stay on topic.

12/04/2012 02:29 PMPosted by Bootzilla
Going into Defensive Stance means they do absolutely no damage, which is the exact same justification we were all using when everyone complained about Feral having Bear CDs for survivability in seasons past. Now a Warrior is using the same argument for his cooldowns and suddenly it's a problem? Go home, please.


Umm.. read:

This is almost word-for-word the exact same argument we were trying to make for Bear Form + Frenzied Regen in PvP.

Bears got nerfed anyway.

If Blizz is at all consistent with their design decisions, Warriors' defensive stance will probably get nerfed in PvP too.

But then again, we all know how consistent Blizz is with PvP...


Double standard? By any logic, which you seem to show a lack of, warriors defenses should share the same fate. Please stop posting.
Edited by Bizznizz on 12/4/2012 9:15 PM PST
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Ghostcrawlers mage mustve lost a duel to a feral...

NERF FERALZ!!11!
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52 Troll Hunter
0
I wouldn't mind a Feral nerf :-) Or mage nerf, or warrior, or warlock... or Hunter :P

I always figured that feral druids (druids being a hybrid class) were supposed to be a bit behind rogues, as we are energy users and dps for every spec. At least I always figured all dps-only classes (Hunter, Rogue, Warlock, Mage) were supposed to put out more DPS than hybrid classes (which I assume would be for pvp and pve due to our lack of versatility). I almost swear I read that somewhere in an old Blizzard post...
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I wouldn't mind a Feral nerf :-) Or mage nerf, or warrior, or warlock... or Hunter :P

I always figured that feral druids (druids being a hybrid class) were supposed to be a bit behind rogues, as we are energy users and dps for every spec. At least I always figured all dps-only classes (Hunter, Rogue, Warlock, Mage) were supposed to put out more DPS than hybrid classes (which I assume would be for pvp and pve due to our lack of versatility). I almost swear I read that somewhere in an old Blizzard post...


Lack of versatility isnt really the problem now. Most classes have self heals, most have CC interupts etc.
Hybrids are only hybrids coz they can do highly nerfed heals on people other then themselves now. Thats about the only real difference since all classes seem to have more CC's then damaging abilities.
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52 Troll Hunter
0
True, there is a ridiculous amount of CC right now. I haaaate the Feral instant cast cyclones more than just about anything >.< Everything feels way too "First 10 seconds of fight are all that matters" right about now.
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90 Goblin Mage
6940
12/04/2012 09:29 PMPosted by Rackemwillie
At least I always figured all dps-only classes (Hunter, Rogue, Warlock, Mage) were supposed to put out more DPS than hybrid classes (which I assume would be for pvp and pve due to our lack of versatility). I almost swear I read that somewhere in an old Blizzard post...


I don't think so. But in any case, they seem to change things from time to time. Their game after all, i guess.
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52 Troll Hunter
0
In accordance to, what I guess others call, a "Hybrid tax".
March 2009: Patch 3.1 Released

Ghostcrawler states the basic logic behind the hybrid tax:

Ghostcrawler: Our logic is actually pretty simple. If hybrid classes can do the same dps as pure classes, then why have pure classes in the game? So we design the pure classes to do slightly higher dps.
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90 Goblin Mage
6940
Hah. Well, in that case I think you should hold his feet to the fire.
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90 Tauren Druid
13895
In accordance to, what I guess others call, a "Hybrid tax".
March 2009: Patch 3.1 Released

Ghostcrawler states the basic logic behind the hybrid tax:

Ghostcrawler: Our logic is actually pretty simple. If hybrid classes can do the same dps as pure classes, then why have pure classes in the game? So we design the pure classes to do slightly higher dps.


Maybe now you're experiencing the "tax" for having been overpowered for so long.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
In accordance to, what I guess others call, a "Hybrid tax".
March 2009: Patch 3.1 Released

Ghostcrawler states the basic logic behind the hybrid tax:

Ghostcrawler: Our logic is actually pretty simple. If hybrid classes can do the same dps as pure classes, then why have pure classes in the game? So we design the pure classes to do slightly higher dps.


That was before we were cut into four specs.

Seven years ago that was true. I was still feral then and learned how to use everything in my toolbox to stay alive. We could solo almost anything pve wise. If you killed something in pvp then good job.
Now, we have been given a new toolbox with little hybrid ability, and futile when used. The same could be said for Pallies and Shamans. They use to be a faction specific hybrids, where are they now? Yes as crazy as it sounds, there used to be shamy tanks in low level instances. It just took them a little longer to destroy the druid.
One day there will be another change to us, and we will have to live with that. Judging by what happened to the pally and shamy maybe it will get better for us. All the same tho, I want my catbearmoonfire in your face druid again.
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90 Tauren Druid
14035
Problem is of course is that whatever happens ... PvE will be in the firing line.... nerfing CD stacking? There goes our needed burst in the burst phases. Nerfing damage? Ok... so we become less desirable to take.... Nerfing direct damage? GL with the elegon orbs....

Buff bleed? Watch the QQ about ferals being able to bleed and run resurface.

Remove PS/Cyclone combo? There goes our practical CC.... (practical as in, our only other reliable CC is Maim, and gl trying to get that off whilst still doing any damage)

Whatever is done will have a massive negative impact somewhere... and will probably break the spec in one way or another.


Nerf the PvP set bonus. This would also serve the additional purpose of not making me grind 14000 conquest for my raiding gear.
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