Rogue's have to stay nerfed

85 Undead Rogue
5920
So I have come to the realization that the unique saying "History repeats itself" is in fact true.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In WotLK, Blizzard added Death Knights to the game, a melee, physical damage dealing class. Upon adding Death Knights to the game, people began to realize that they were far superior to Warriors, a class that had been very popular since the game had came out. So superior that many of the Warriors that felt worthless, re-rolled to DK just so they could have that feeling of being powerful again, while still being up in ur face, dealing massive damage.

I believe this is actually what blizzard intended! They made DK's more powerful than Warrior's, because the fact is...the people who had the interest to play DK's were probably already playing Warrior's and wouldn't want to class switch. Thus probably leaving the class the least played class of the expansion. So their solution was to nudge Warrior's to try out DK's by making DK's do rediculous damage.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now to the present, using the exact same Paragraph with a few words changed.

In MoP, Blizzard added Monks to the game, a melee, combo point building, stun you, deal damage and get away class. Upon adding Monks to the game, people began to realize that they were far superior to Rogues, a class that had been very popular since the game had came out. So superior that many of the Rogues that felt worthless, re-rolled to Monk just so they could have that feeling of being powerful again, while still being a ombo point building, stun you, deal damage and get away class

I believe this is actually what blizzard intended! They made Monk's more unique than Rogues, because the fact is...the people who had the interest to play Monks were probably already playing Rogues and wouldn't want to class switch. Thus probably leaving the class the least played class of the expansion. So their solution was to nudge Rogues to try out Monks by making Rogues do laughable damage.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So as you can see, instead of like WotLK, making the new class OP to the similar class....they decided to make the new class average, and just nerf the hell out of the similar class.

Probably to avoid the "this is just like WotLK and DK's" remarks

So i believe we are doomed to stay nerfed for this expansion.

HOWEVER!!! The bright side is that Rogue's will be OP in Patch 7.0, should history repeat itself again. With warriors being bleh in 3.0 and awesome in 5.0
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90 Human Rogue
5770
Interesting theory and makes sense, However a lot of people do not want to re-roll monk and therefore blizzard is losing subs. So my recommendation is that if this is what you are doing blizzard.. Stop it, you're hurting yourself.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
13440
Except that the problems that the class is experiencing aren't localised to 5.0 and 5.1. We also had terrible damage in 3.0, and we were playing second fiddle to Warriors in 4.0. I'll refrain from going over the ones I can't immediately recall because it's not really fair for me to put that much effort into the class.

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
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85 Undead Rogue
5920
Rogue's just had a sour taste in their mount in 3.0 because of the no stun-lock thing running over into a new expansion....i admit, i was one of them...i halfway mained a mage because of it....

4.0 we were second to warriors....but we should be....we had triple the control they had...we could strategically wear our foes down...where as a Warrior is basically trying to out DPS the opponent down asap

right now i am maining a mage...not because they are zomg OP....i think i have an OCD on being able to control the fight with CC....i don't like playing Warrior, fighting another Warrior, and see who can go more HAM in 6 seconds
Edited by Bonedetta on 11/29/2012 11:24 PM PST
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90 Worgen Rogue
6700
11/29/2012 10:48 PMPosted by Bonedetta
I believe this is actually what blizzard intended!


Stopped reading there, because it's a terrible business model to go "We don't like X class, so let's make class Y to make those that play class X feel weak and useless". When you aren't having fun with your class, you either A) reroll, or B) quit. And it's hardly a good business model to base balancing on punishment/reward for time OP/UP in the game.

We are not weak because we were strong before. We were not strong before because we were once weak. Realize that blizzard is made up of people, who can also make mistakes, and as being employed by a company, have set policies and procedures they have to follow. Suddenly, they don't seem so sinister, just annoyingly slow.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
ONE
12360
11/29/2012 11:37 PMPosted by Tichar
Stopped reading there, because it's a terrible business model to go "We don't like X class, so let's make class Y to make those that play class X feel weak and useless".

Nowhere did he say they did it because they didn't like rogues. His reasoning was that rogues were the most likely to enjoy monks due to similarities in the class. While I don't wanna venture any guesses as to the intent of developers, I can't exactly refute the validity of his logic nor the symmetry in his comparison.
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90 Undead Rogue
10910
Sounds like a weed-induced conspiracy theory
Edited by Ducivo on 11/30/2012 2:41 AM PST
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89 Human Monk
4880
11/29/2012 11:37 PMPosted by Tichar
I believe this is actually what blizzard intended!


Stopped reading there, because it's a terrible business model to go "We don't like X class, so let's make class Y to make those that play class X feel weak and useless". When you aren't having fun with your class, you either A) reroll, or B) quit. And it's hardly a good business model to base balancing on punishment/reward for time OP/UP in the game.

We are not weak because we were strong before. We were not strong before because we were once weak. Realize that blizzard is made up of people, who can also make mistakes, and as being employed by a company, have set policies and procedures they have to follow. Suddenly, they don't seem so sinister, just annoyingly slow.


they have done it before, and rogues being the lowest class its not a MASIVE sub loss unlike say, paladins all unsubing, or mages, warriors, ect..
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90 Undead Rogue
11905
But...Monks suck.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
0
11/29/2012 11:37 PMPosted by Tichar
Stopped reading there, because it's a terrible business model to go "We don't like X class, so let's make class Y to make those that play class X feel weak and useless".

11/30/2012 03:38 AMPosted by Xuechi
they have done it before

Your statement implies intent on their part, in which case: no, they haven't.
Edited by Verelyse on 11/30/2012 7:22 AM PST
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90 Worgen Rogue
6235
How do you make something "more unique" than something else?
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90 Human Rogue
4675
Nice read... Makes me think... Monks are A pretty awful class though... I can down one pretty easy during 5.0.4 and I can still down one..
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90 Human Rogue
13000
/tinfoilhat
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90 Worgen Rogue
15570
I don't think it was just this. More a combination of:

1) Being a gear dependent vs a gear-augmented class. We scale ridiculously well with gear so we start off each xpac looking like crap and wind up looking like small thermonuclear detonations. And personally, I don't think Blizzard has ever been accused of taking the long view when it comes to their classes. Very much a what have you done lately mentality.

2) Harsh unaccounted for nerfs in the talent "cough"recycle"cough" revamp. We all know about this one.

3) A stale toolkit that's being slowly homogenized and disseminated amongst the other classes. Outside of Vendetta/HfB, Killing Spree, Shadow Dance and the MoP abilities we have the exact same toolkit we did in TBC. I don't think our rotations have changed at all except for using rupture(assassination for energy/combat pretty much not at all) and sub swapping in backstab for hemo. And now we're seeing shorter CD lesser or greater(depending on who you talk to) versions of vanish popping up.

4) The aforementioned near total blackout rogues got in beta. We've all seen that beta feedback collection thread. Best bet is anything rogues were slated to get were shunted off into monks' toolkits to make them more appealing and as a result, we're the redheaded step children this go round.

We're seeing what we usually see at the beginning of an xpac just to a far more harsh degree from multiple factors building up and Blizzard either not caring about or not comprehending the results despite a massive amount of early warning.
Edited by Dryden on 11/30/2012 3:29 PM PST
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85 Undead Rogue
5920
11/30/2012 05:15 AMPosted by Repatriate
But...Monks suck.


I do agree with this, but they don't suck as much as say....Rogues do. They are also looking to buff Monks while leaving Rogues right where they are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nncOKX0y5lo

If Ghostcrawler watches that video, and says Rogue's damage is fine. He is the one smoking weed.

11/30/2012 06:24 AMPosted by Ulaire
How do you make something "more unique" than something else?


Monk's got a lot of stuff that sounds like it should be part of a Rogue's arsenal.

1) Building combo points on themselves rather than on the enemy.
2) AoE stun
3) Abililty where monks **steal** the target's weapon and use it against them, disarming the target
4) Roll is mobility king....+ Flying Serpent Kick = God Mode

You had me up until you said that we would have rerolled Monks.

Monks are pretty lackluster in today's PvP environment; Death Knights were the Gods of arena all throughout S5 and a good early portion of S6.


not EVERYONE will re-roll to Monks....im sure some will have went Warrior for crazy damage, or Feral Druid for another Stealth, or possibly Hunter.....but with it being the new class, a lot of people would re-roll to it for something fresh

and no one quits WoW, they only take breaks...Blizzard knows this
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Blizzard makes us believe they'll fix the problems with rogues, but they won't fix it any time soon for the next few major patches. It's better to just quit paying for WoW, and go play GW2 whilst Ghostcrawler finishes his agenda of forcing rogues to reroll.
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90 Human Rogue
11855
If history repeats itself, then classes get buffed to be gods (warriors, etc) and classes which were previously gods (read: us by the end of Cata) get nerfed to hell and back. This isn't exactly new. Keeps fotm players toonhopping and gearing alts every few months = less people suspending subscriptions. I don't know if I'll ever really believe that classes are meant to be balanced. The good news is, this means we'll eventually be godly again and have a bunch of fotm kids hopping back on board... the second part of that sentence is bad news. I just hate it because I'm going to play this class either way but I'd rather not do it with plate wearers moving faster than me and critting way harder with less of a skill req. and crappy gear.
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