Death Knights, Mary Sues, and Hero Classes

Two parts to this discussion. Read the whole thing first, please.

First, what is your view on Death Knights, as a whole? They start at level 55 and require you to have reached level 55 on another character to be able to play as one. From a lore standpoint, they are former Alliance and Horde paladins, warriors, and various soldiers that died during the campaign in Northrend, only to be risen as undead to serve the Lich King's Scourge army. What do you like about the lore, playstyle, requirements, anything?

Second, if you have a problem with Death Knights, how would you change it? If you have a problem with them starting at level 55, what would you do differently?
Conversely, if you -don't- have a problem with certain aspects of the Death Knights, why should they be kept as-is instead of being changed to anything different?

*puts up flame shield, pillow armor, stainless steel pot helmet, etc*
Please be civil. ._.
Edited by Máirin on 11/30/2012 4:07 PM PST
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94 Blood Elf Death Knight
7730
Two parts to this discussion. Read the whole thing first, please.

First, what is your view on Death Knights, as a whole? They start at level 55 and require you to have reached level 55 on another character to be able to play as one. From a lore standpoint, they are former Alliance and Horde paladins, warriors, and various soldiers that died during the campaign in Northrend, only to be risen as undead to serve the Lich King's Scourge army. What do you like about the lore, playstyle, requirements, anything?

Everything until the left the Scourge.


Second, if you have a problem with Death Knights, how would you change it? If you have a problem with them starting at level 55, what would you do differently?

Third Scourge faction.

Conversely, if you -don't- have a problem with certain aspects of the Death Knights, why should they be kept as-is instead of being changed to anything different?

More undeath and destruction and murder...oh can we have mayhem too!

Please be civil. ._.

*Puts on the a monocle*
Hof Hof Hof
For the Scourge and all that.
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94 Human Death Knight
9615
Actually, all death knights are former argent dawn IIRC.
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90 Undead Rogue
8300
Two parts to this discussion. Read the whole thing first, please.

First, what is your view on Death Knights, as a whole? They start at level 55 and require you to have reached level 55 on another character to be able to play as one. From a lore standpoint, they are former Alliance and Horde paladins, warriors, and various soldiers that died during the campaign in Northrend, only to be risen as undead to serve the Lich King's Scourge army. What do you like about the lore, playstyle, requirements, anything?


Death Knights are a useful class. Their lore is sketchy and roleplayers tend to project onto them the same lore concerns that they project onto vampires in other settings - largely accurately, since Death Knights serve the same thematic function in WoW.
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11/30/2012 04:52 PMPosted by Kalad
Actually, all death knights are former argent dawn IIRC.

Are you sure? I know that's not the case for Worgen, at least, due to their...unique backstory. :T
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100 Night Elf Rogue
18300
My death knight has "san'layn trained" all over him, as he was during the Scarlet Crusade massacre. He followed the San'layns' orders a little closer than most and loved killing and slaughtering everyone in his path. He enjoys spilling and tasting blood, tracking others by the smell of their blood, and manipulating blood as the spells explain within the blood death knight tree, but he doesn't live on it. And if anyone calls him a vampire, he snaps he's not a bat in Tirisfal. Daylight doesn't bother him, but memories begin to eat at him when he steps onto holy ground and that's where his agony comes from when he nears the cathedral. Holy water spilled on him will just make him angry you messed up his hair.

So, yes, he's set up almost like a vampire. But, no, he is NOT a vampire. He also doesn't sparkle. Anyone comes near him with those glitter buffs and he'll try to behead them.
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My death knight has "san'layn trained" all over him, as he was during the Scarlet Crusade massacre. He followed the San'layns' orders a little closer than most and loved killing and slaughtering everyone in his path. He enjoys spilling and tasting blood, tracking others by the smell of their blood, and manipulating blood as the spells explain within the blood death knight tree, but he doesn't live on it. And if anyone calls him a vampire, he snaps he's not a bat in Tirisfal. Daylight doesn't bother him, but memories begin to eat at him when he steps onto holy ground and that's where his agony comes from when he nears the cathedral. Holy water spilled on him will just make him angry you messed up his hair.

So, yes, he's set up almost like a vampire. But, no, he is NOT a vampire. He also doesn't sparkle. Anyone comes near him with those glitter buffs and he'll try to behead them.

So...ah...
...You've just...told everyone a very...unique backstory for your character that...nobody asked for. :T

Please read the OP, good sir. *puts on top hat*
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90 Undead Rogue
8300
I believe he is replying to my claim that Death Knights are the thematic equivalent of vampires in WoW, moreso than even the actual vampires present in-game.

To which I can only say, everything he has mentioned is still pretty steeped in the themes of vampirism, and especially in how we discuss vampirism.
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I believe he is replying to my claim that Death Knights are the thematic equivalent of vampires in WoW, moreso than even the actual vampires present in-game.

To which I can only say, everything he has mentioned is still pretty steeped in the themes of vampirism, and especially in how we discuss vampirism.

Ah, yeah. I see. Kinda...came out of nowhere to me. xD
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100 Pandaren Rogue
13860
I believe he is replying to my claim that Death Knights are the thematic equivalent of vampires in WoW, moreso than even the actual vampires present in-game.

To which I can only say, everything he has mentioned is still pretty steeped in the themes of vampirism, and especially in how we discuss vampirism.

Ah, yeah. I see. Kinda...came out of nowhere to me. xD


Warning: Asking people questions about how they RP death knights will inevitable lead to someone sharing the details on how they RP death knights.
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Ah, yeah. I see. Kinda...came out of nowhere to me. xD


Warning: Asking people questions about how they RP death knights will inevitable lead to someone sharing the details on how they RP death knights.

I didn't. Not at all. xD That's kind of why it seemed random. I asked what they think of Death Knights as a whole. :P
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87 Pandaren Hunter
1300
I think they need to shop for some new clothes in the Martha Stewart section of Target.
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94 Blood Elf Death Knight
7730
11/30/2012 06:58 PMPosted by Pån
I think they need to shop for some new clothes in the Martha Stewart section of Target.

CEO of Target was a warrior tank that got pushed aside in WOTLK for a DK tank. We were never forgiven for that.
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92 Tauren Paladin
4415
I think death knights are incredibly interesting, specifically the Knights of the Ebon Blade. They span from antagonist to antihero. They're former soldiers who have been torn from everything that they once knew and loved, and they now struggle to maintain some kind of normalcy in a world that knows they're not normal. They're not even natural. Even the other varieties of death knights are even interesting: disillusioned paladins who succumbed to their hatred and submitted themselves to Arthas in exchange for otherworldly power, or even the splintered death knights risen by Gul'dan's hand.

Even as far as gameplay/mechanics go I don't have any issues with the death knight. I think their playstyle is interesting and it brought something new and exciting to the game. Keeping them as they are is probably a decision of ease more than anything else because trying to modify how they or their quest line work seems like a lot of effort, and I don't even know how I can explain "new" death knights. I wish they had made them a separate faction, but I knew Blizzard wasn't going to do it then and I know they're not going to do it any time soon. There are just too many complications that prevent it, facets of the game that are more important than RP. But having them reunited with their faction? It feels like forcing a square peg into a round hole, like far too many pieces of WoW lore these days.

None of this counts towards RP. There are just far too many bad death knight roleplayers for me to take any of them seriously.

...I feel like I just had this conversation in trade chat.
Edited by Retrimootion on 11/30/2012 7:07 PM PST
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94 Human Death Knight
9615
I like DKs. People tend to roleplay them are extremely powerful warriors (which they are, lorewise), which doesn't fit the rolepaly in wow very much.

I've seen dks done wrong, and dks done right. I personally think I'm a good dk roleplayer, already received compliments on how I roleplay Kalad and all.

Unfortunaly, I think there are more "bad" dk roleplayers (pregnant dks, super happy/complete brood and dark tr00 from h3ll dks, etc) than good.

Did I answered correctly?
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11/30/2012 07:06 PMPosted by Retrimootion
...I feel like I just had this conversation in trade chat.

You did! This is Nanko's main. :P That conversation kinda made me start this topic, actually.

11/30/2012 07:10 PMPosted by Kalad
Did I answered correctly?

There's no correct answer, I'm just interested to hear the general public's thoughts on Death Knights, or at least the general public of WrA.
Edited by Máirin on 11/30/2012 8:26 PM PST
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90 Goblin Shaman
10205
Oh hey, it's you.
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94 Blood Elf Death Knight
7730
11/30/2012 09:01 PMPosted by Zieto
Oh hey, it's you.

???
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11/30/2012 09:07 PMPosted by Lansuer
Oh hey, it's you.

???
Probably remembers me from the chat in Trade Horde-side about DKs earlier today. :P

Anyway, to avoid going off-topic, Zieto, what was your thoughts on DKs, again?
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
14820
There is nothing wrong with the death knight class.

There are a lot of things wrong with individual players, but not with the class as a whole.

Except maybe the fact that I can't have anything other than a slightly rotted face as a blood elf.
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