Combustion/CM overnerfs. Raidbots confirmed!

90 Gnome Mage
13970

Logically there is no data to support that anyone would stick with fire aside from liking the plays style. However you can not accurately quantify this factor. The only near factual statement we can safely say is that the top players would gravitate to whichever spec was doing optimal damage.


The Play style of Fire got gutted too with the CM nerf it is not all about Damage, 8 - 10% off someones crit ~490 ilvl really does make a differenece and leads to more frustration with wilder swings of RNG. Towawrd the end of Lei Shi I had around 12 fireballs with no crit and combustion ready to go.
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100 Orc Warlock
15285
12/06/2012 05:14 PMPosted by Naishee
He's wrong tthough. The Arcane buffs were massive.


And yet its still not that strong from what I can see, as it requires too much build up and is crippled by movement.
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90 Worgen Mage
15160

Logically there is no data to support that anyone would stick with fire aside from liking the plays style. However you can not accurately quantify this factor. The only near factual statement we can safely say is that the top players would gravitate to whichever spec was doing optimal damage.


The Play style of Fire got gutted too with the CM nerf it is not all about Damage, 8 - 10% off someones crit ~490 ilvl really does make a differenece and leads to more frustration with wilder swings of RNG. Towawrd the end of Lei Shi I had around 12 fireballs with no crit and combustion ready to go.


As I posted either yesterday or the day before, Mr Good Looking Worgen Mage, I also had a run such as this, even worse - 16 FB's before a single crit. If I had not had the Combustion Glyph, I would have gone an entire duration of the CD of Combust without ever being able to use it. That to me pretty clearly says something is wrong with the current system.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11670
12/06/2012 05:21 PMPosted by Vreivai
And yet its still not that strong from what I can see, as it requires too much build up and is crippled by movement.

Oh it has problems to be sure. But I think on a patchwerk single target it may be #1 or close to it now.
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90 Gnome Mage
13970


As I posted either yesterday or the day before, Mr Good Looking Worgen Mage, I also had a run such as this, even worse - 16 FB's before a single crit. If I had not had the Combustion Glyph, I would have gone an entire duration of the CD of Combust without ever being able to use it. That to me pretty clearly says something is wrong with the current system.


You got some good gear and crit is very high as well got about 4% on me i think in my fire gear. The CM change should have been made in 5.2 it is something they may have to manually adjust with each tier if they do not find another way to smooth things out.

1.35 or 1.4 would have even been a better choice. Still think Blizz always over nerfs or over Buffs and are too concerned with rounder numbers or quaint equations.
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1 Troll Rogue
0
So what's the verdict?

I've lost anywhere from 8-25% depending on the fight, and RNG.

Anyone have an average from the parses?
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90 Blood Elf Mage
6075
12/06/2012 05:21 PMPosted by Vreivai
He's wrong tthough. The Arcane buffs were massive.


And yet its still not that strong from what I can see, as it requires too much build up and is crippled by movement.


It is very sad to be 2rd/3th on DPS(in 10 man) under ideal circumstances (1 cleave target, almost no movement whatsoever) as arcane.
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100 Draenei Mage
8925
GC was thinking "Phew, luckily I don't play Mage anymore."
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So what's the verdict?

I've lost anywhere from 8-25% depending on the fight, and RNG.

Anyone have an average from the parses?


http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10N/all/7/30/default/#7fnnv

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25N/all/7/30/default/#1http

Look at our position on the right side, and it's not leveling out until sat/sun when people don't raid as much.
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90 Human Mage
10850
Wow.. I half expected it to even out today. Worse than even I thought.
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1 Troll Rogue
0
So what's the verdict?

I've lost anywhere from 8-25% depending on the fight, and RNG.

Anyone have an average from the parses?


http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/10N/all/7/30/default/#7fnnv

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25N/all/7/30/default/#1http

Look at our position on the right side, and it's not leveling out until sat/sun when people don't raid as much.


Ouch...
Thanks for the link.
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Ghostcrawler twitter:

Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
@Velayna Not seeing Fire on bottom. Happy where Fire is so far. Many mages trying Arcane and Frost, skewing results of sites like raidbots.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
More:

David Johnson ‏@JamaicanJasta
@Ghostcrawler This week (since the hotfix) fire has twice as many parses than Frost and Arcane combined, how would that skew the results?


Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
@JamaicanJasta Look at Arcane's curve leap skyward. Now considered they were not buffed.


David Johnson ‏@JamaicanJasta
@Ghostcrawler Your reply implies that min/max moved to Arcane. Those outliers alone don't explain why median numbers for Fire fell so much.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
12485
More:

David Johnson ‏@JamaicanJasta
@Ghostcrawler This week (since the hotfix) fire has twice as many parses than Frost and Arcane combined, how would that skew the results?


Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
@JamaicanJasta Look at Arcane's curve leap skyward. Now considered they were not buffed.


David Johnson ‏@JamaicanJasta
@Ghostcrawler Your reply implies that min/max moved to Arcane. Those outliers alone don't explain why median numbers for Fire fell so much.


Guess we'll have to let GC make a fool of himself for another week or two before he runs out of excuses.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
HE DOESN'T EVEN KNOW ARCANE WAS BUFFED.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
I don't expect the lead developer and community representative to memorize every single aspect of every single spec's buffs, but before posting like that you'd figure he would give Google a spin to check out the patch notes just to make sure it was factual.

I can already see that statement being walked back with "Well, Arcane wasn't hotfix buffed at the same time as Fire's nerf" as if 3 whole days of the newly buffed Arcane not competing well with a tremendously overpowered Fire meant that Arcane was secretly this awesome all along, and that the buffs meant nothing for its playability.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
6075
Well this is disappointing.
One would hope that the mage dev(s) have noticed this huge drop.

One should tweet to him the pretty significant arcane buffs put in as well.
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Some snippets from GC's twitter page:

http://i.imgur.com/nkVPR.png

http://i.imgur.com/GIABD.png

http://i.imgur.com/94eFz.png

and my personal favorite: http://i.imgur.com/gDs4q.png

Just informing on ghostcrawler's stance on fire being bottom dps and arcane's sudden presence on charts.
Edited by Kawaiidesu on 12/7/2012 6:08 PM PST
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90 Gnome Mage
6870
More:







Guess we'll have to let GC make a fool of himself for another week or two before he runs out of excuses.


So mostly baddies play a spec that is lower DPS, so we (Blizzard) do not buff specs that are showing low DPS because it is mostly the players.
Oh, this patch we buffed most of the specs that were lower DPS.

I (and I think most others) would be accepting if the posts were of the nature of we are watching where numbers go. But really these replies just show arrogance in the presentation of: we know better, but we are not going to back up that opinion with any data.
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I had a friend back in city of Heroes, Kalimagdaline, who once made a post that I called Kali's Law: whenever the devs have three choices, any one of which will solve the problem, they automatically do all three.

This certainly has the look of that. Whether it's true, we'll see soon enough.
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