Combustion/CM overnerfs. Raidbots confirmed!

90 Blood Elf Mage
0
Hybrids don't understand that when you have two (or three, in our case) competing class role specs, they need to be similar or everyone will play the better one.

Fire is not dead because it's bad, it's dead because it's not as good as Arcane, ever.

That's not acceptable.

If Arcane needs to be brought back down, so be it, but at this point worthless talent trees need to be out.

This isn't 2005.
Edited by Laizhensil on 12/20/2012 9:16 PM PST
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90 Draenei Mage
16945
12/20/2012 08:01 PMPosted by Elantor
If the top geared mages stayed fire after the nerf they would still be pulling top 5 dps (maybe not top dps but that was the intention of the nerf). But they didnt.


Would you like to tell me more about how much dps top geared mages are pulling?
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90 Troll Mage
12435
12/20/2012 05:33 PMPosted by Sensations
I mean look at arcane, when fire got nerfed arcane shot up almost a perfect straight line, up. Yet arcane received no buffs.


Actually arcane received a huge mana reduction buff. This is why a lot of mages switched.
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90 Orc Shaman
13750
12/20/2012 05:33 PMPosted by Sensations
I mean look at arcane, when fire got nerfed arcane shot up almost a perfect straight line, up. Yet arcane received no buffs.


Yes it did.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
11850
If the top geared mages stayed fire after the nerf they would still be pulling top 5 dps (maybe not top dps but that was the intention of the nerf). But they didnt.


Would you like to tell me more about how much dps top geared mages are pulling?


Be my pleasure...

Logoz Blood Legion Mage who recently switched to arcane... 201k DPS in Elite Protectors.. Same for Zonker of the same guild (Rank 1 of all time)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nirxwfyvomstxb3x/sum/damageDone/?s=4341&e=4811#Logoz

Porki of Pulse guild (look at all the mages in the guild whi switched to Arcane)

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2l0hgb89bspqy0j1/sum/damageDone/?s=12897&e=13350#Porki

Fire Mage (AFTER THE NERF) 112k DPS on Vizier..

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z3x675q9h7i2mzjl/sum/damageDone/?s=3181&e=3418#Onishuyakee

This are just 3 logs I coughed up with 2 minutes of research in WoL... Just browse WoL you will find many...

Hybrids don't understand that when you have two (or three, in our case) competing class role specs, they need to be similar or everyone will play the better one.

Fire is not dead because it's bad, it's dead because it's not as good as Arcane, ever.

That's not acceptable.

If Arcane needs to be brought back down, so be it, but at this point worthless talent trees need to be out.

This isn't 2005.


That is not just true for pure classes... Most of DPS DKs play frost because it is better (even by a very very small margin).. Get over the pure-hybrid paradigm already.. its getting boring. Its not acceptable to have arcane better than fire? says who? If you really like fire, dont switch to arcane just for the DPS increase. Keep playing fire despite the recent nerf...

A lot of mages stayed fire after the nerf and still pull decent numbers.. They are of course not topping the charts everytime but is being competitve enough to not be a burden to the raid (which I cannot say for many other classes/specs).. So stop complaining and get over it.
Edited by Elantor on 12/21/2012 11:38 AM PST
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69 Worgen Warrior
0
Hybrids don't understand that when you have two (or three, in our case) competing class role specs, they need to be similar or everyone will play the better one.

Fire is not dead because it's bad, it's dead because it's not as good as Arcane, ever.

That's not acceptable.

If Arcane needs to be brought back down, so be it, but at this point worthless talent trees need to be out.

This isn't 2005.


Arcane and fire will never be equal given the fact that fire scales way better with gear upgrades than arcane does. They would constantly have to adjust one or the other to keep them in line and at some point....one group or the other....fire or arcane would grow angry over the repeated nerfs required to keep them in line. You will simply have to wait until new tier gear crit rating enhancements equalizes the nerf and your dps will surpass arcane once again.

Arcane and fire have NEVER been equal in the past. In Woltk and Cata, arcane was head and shoulders above fire...until legendaries and 4.3 landed and bolted fire past arcane. Look at hunter trees...lol there has always been ONE decent tree and two totally useless trees. Im pretty sure unholy DK has taken a backseat to frost the majority of the time.

So while I respect your approach...you didnt call for MOAR buffs to fire...I dont see your expectations as reasonable.
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90 Draenei Mage
16945
Fire Mage (AFTER THE NERF) 112k DPS on Vizier..

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-z3x675q9h7i2mzjl/sum/damageDone/?s=3181&e=3418#Onishuyakee

This are just 3 logs I coughed up with 2 minutes of research in WoL... Just browse WoL you will find many...


You found two arcane logs (we were talking about fire) and one log of a normal mode kill where someone averaged 38k combustion ticks (that is not standard...), fight ended just after his third combustion expired, and enjoyed crit rates significantly above what his gear suggests.

I did 140k on garajal last week. I, too, experienced crit rates well above my gear and a fight timer that lined up well with combustion. It's ludicrous to suggest that this means fire is good.

Obviously fire is somewhat better off than it was when this thread was made, we got about 1.5% crit back. It is nowhere near the "Top 5 DPS" you pulled out of nowhere - I am one of those top geared mages you were talking about, since you apparantly didn't catch the hint in my previous post. I outgear most of my guild and in fact, most of the world (last I checked, I was the 14th most geared mage in the world). And I feel pretty confident I know my class better than you do.
Edited by Kolzi on 12/21/2012 2:19 PM PST
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12/20/2012 08:01 PMPosted by Elantor
Mages in general have no right to complain about DPS


This right here is why you will never get it.

Just to be on the safe side, how many threads do you see about Combustion damage reduced by 50% on a regular basis? 1? maybe 2?

Complaining about DPS, that isn't what this is about. We aren't asking to go back to being 10-20k above number 2.

We're complaining about Mechanics that lead to dps, not the dps itself. They could have reduced the damage of fireball and pyroblast by the % it would take to get us in line with everyone else, and leave the CM at 1.5 while they figure out a safe way to fix us for 5.2.

This is why you will never get it. You think its about us wanting to be overpowered.
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90 Gnome Warlock
12555

This is why you will never get it. You think its about us wanting to be overpowered.


Yes this is what's it all about. Mages for the last 2 xpacs have been overpowered. Us warlocks get nerfs after nerfs because of pvp, deal with it and stop whinging already. you have 3 viable specs all in the top 5, cry me a river
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90 Blood Elf Mage
6075
12/21/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Elantor
Be my pleasure...


You clearly failed to armory him, if you did you would see he's almost in full heroic gear.
Possibly in full BiS, although I have yet to evaluate it since I'm so far behind top progression at the present.

12/21/2012 03:49 PMPosted by Merlins
Mages for the last 2 xpacs have been overpowered. Us warlocks get nerfs after nerfs because of pvp


People have posted over and over showing that warlocks always did better in PvP than mages in every season of this game at highish levels of arenas.
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90 Worgen Mage
6410
A nerf was necessery, Expected even. But taking away crital strikes... Come on!
Nerf fireball x% and pyroblast x%. and profit.
Give us the older combustion back. It's an embarassment right now. It hit much harder at level 85. Much much harder. (Always fished for massive ignites)
Take away some of the cleave in that case.
It's downright painful to play fire spec right now. Wild swings in both directions. But usually just sitting there waiting for a critical strike.

Do you have any idea how incredibly frustating it is to have combustion off cool down and not able to use it? And when you do manage to land those epic back to back pyro criticals you still end up with a very lack luster combustion....
No other class have i experianced such frustration praying for good RNG. The only way you can keep up with other classes is to have rediculously good RNG. And even then, its only keeping you somewhat competitive.
Hear me out though. I am not asking for Top Dog Dps again. I just want to have my crits back. I like crits. And to stand half a chance on the DPS meters. (without cleave) and without Arcane. I do extremely well as arcane. Still dont enjoy it.
Again - I dont want a huge buff to damage - Id rather have a nerf with my criticals back.. Just the thrill of competition would be nice as fire spec.
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This is why you will never get it. You think its about us wanting to be overpowered.


Yes this is what's it all about. Mages for the last 2 xpacs have been overpowered. Us warlocks get nerfs after nerfs because of pvp, deal with it and stop whinging already. you have 3 viable specs all in the top 5, cry me a river


I don't need to cry a river when you are so apt at providing the tears for me.

Continue on with your beaten class syndrome, if you were anything useful, you'd actually be talking about your class, not belittling the real problems of others.

Also, would you like more Chgeese with with your "Whing"?
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16835
It's honestly sad how many people come to the forums and their only argument is "well you were great for X so now you get to suck!"

That's not a logical argument and it shows your overall ignorance and stupidity.

Fire do have a gripe here and that gripe is valid regardless of Fire or the state of Mage viability throughout WoW. Only the present and future matter for balance. Fire currently, while not as bad as someone make it out to be, was nerfed with Arcane buffed without any further adjustments to the specs. It resulted in Fire being outclassed in near every aspect, which is why you see the top Mages switching to Arcane.

It's one thing to nerf a spec because it's too strong. It's another to make it perform worse in basically every aspect than rival specs.

This is the same god damn issue Blizzard keeps repeating over and over and over and over with all Pures in the history of this game.

I'll use Hunters as an example. In 4.0.3, Survival had overpowered base damage, making it too strong early on, despite Marksmanship scaling far better in single target and having worse AoE. Blizzard then guts Survival in 4.0.8 without addressing the scaling. Then in 4.1, they buff Marksmanship's AoE to be better than Survival's which was supposed to be Survival's niche. Now Survival spends the next 8 months being a trash spec since you could do anything it could do better by going Marksmanship.

The point to that Hunter comment wasn't to derail the thread. It's an example of my point in that Blizzard shows consistent failure at balancing Pure specs between one another. They can't ever seem to buff or nerf one without making the other specs completely useless or one completely overpowered. It results in Pures swinging between specs at whiplash inducing levels and the players feeling obligated to play one spec over another.

It's fine for spec A to be better than spec B in a single area like single target output but make up for it in other areas. it's a design failure when spec A beats B and C overall due to heavy handed "balance" adjustments.
Edited by Bullettime on 12/24/2012 7:12 PM PST
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21 Undead Mage
80
LHivera GC isnt watching anything... nothing has changed positively

WHY are they stealth nerfing BTW??

Answer me that Lhivera?
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