AH strategies (Newcomer lost)

90 Worgen Warrior
6295
Hello folks

Last week i leveled up Alchemy (mostly for mixology since i'm planning on getting on a core raiding team) and on the weekend i picked up Elixir Master since Transmutes are pilling up on AH unwanted.

The first 10 Flask of the Warm Sun i made sold for about 140g when i undercut my competitors by 1g.

With the money i bought some more materials, made 10 more flasks and posted them at the same price 140g.

Problem is within the next hour 10-12 more flasks were posted, the last 6 of them undercutting me by 20g. I bought them out and reposted them at 140g.

I went on with my life and today i checked out the AH to see about 20-25 more flasks undercutting me by 35-40g, curiously, by the same people that undercut me and i bought out. So the price droped from 140g to 100g in a few hours. * sigh *

What should i do now? Keep buying my competitors out and force the 140g price, with the risk of keeping financing their new flasks that will keep undercutting me, or should i just wait till thursday (raid week starts) and hope i can sell for whatever the market is paying?
Edited by Serendipíty on 12/3/2012 4:20 AM PST
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Figure out what the material cost is for the flasks on your server, factoring in about a 15% reduction in that cost, based on the assumption your competitor is an elixir master.

If you think you can sell them...buy the flasks. However, if they are still being listed at above material cost, then just undercut. All you're doing at that point is giving the other guy your gold for no gain on your end.

In general, however, I suggest listing flasks on Tues, Wed, and Fri. Those seem to be the heaviest raiding days. At least on my server.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
0
Prices will fluctuate throughout the week; it's very hard (and very rarely worthwhile) to try and combat them unless the undercuts are truly ridiculous. Especially when you're just starting out. It's better to adjust what you post based on what's profitable at the time, and hold on to anything else until their prices rebound.
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90 Worgen Warrior
6295
Thanks guys, i guess i'll wait till thursday and repost them.
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90 Orc Rogue
5065
For any item in the AH I'm competing against, I keep track of the prices over time. Once I get an idea of what the item sells for on average, I can then decide when to buy out cheap AH listings. If its just a few cheap listings for 10-20g below what it usually sells for, I'll buy them out and relist. If there are 50+ stacks of that item, it had better be dirt cheap- like 1/2 normal price or less- before I'll invest that much gold (and that many bag slots) to hold onto something until the price corrects itself back to normal.

If I find zero of that item in the AH, and I know its a popular item- then I might jack the price up a ways. For example if Friday night comes around and there is zero of a particular ore in the AH, but I know people will be working their professions on the weekend, I will list a few of mine at the high end of what I have seen them sell for. Simple supply and demand- if there will be a demand, and I'm the only one listing a supply for sale, I can get a premium for it.
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90 Worgen Warrior
6295
They are @ 90g now.

Talk about ups and downs.
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90 Tauren Druid
9425
Prices fluctuate.

My first week going to MSV, I think I dropped 300g on each flask. Maybe even 400g. I just remember it was sickly expensive. I also spent like 200g for some a half stack of some buff food (and not the high level buff food!).

Within a couple weeks, flasks were down to around 125g.

Now I mostly see them around 90g.

The advise about posting for Tuesday is good. If there was data to track sales by the hour, I'd imagine Tuesday between 5pm and 8pm is the busiest time for the AH. Save deposit money by placing them on a short timer on Tuesday, or post them Monday with a 24h timer.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
10065
12/03/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Kerranggaroo
The advise about posting for Tuesday is good. If there was data to track sales by the hour, I'd imagine Tuesday between 5pm and 8pm is the busiest time for the AH. Save deposit money by placing them on a short timer on Tuesday, or post them Monday with a 24h timer.


Detailed data tracking on your realm:https://theunderminejournal.com/item.php?realm=H-Alexstrasza&item=76085
and on the OP's realm: https://theunderminejournal.com/item.php?realm=A-Nemesis&item=76085

Not quite "by the hour" .. but ... close.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14910
https://theunderminejournal.com/item.php?realm=A-Nemesis&item=72238 is the OP's problem. Golden Lotus prices have been declining, and are well below the 96g flasks are going for. And worse, the supply is wobbly but tends to be going up.

That's the trouble with crafting high-supply items. Profit margins shrink if someone else can easily do the exact same work you are. It would be different if the supply of golden lotus was smaller. You buy the cheap ones to make flasks, so only overpriced ones remain and it's harder for a competitor to do the same.

Now, you could hold out and see if lotus prices rise as a result of the SoH vendor giving less, but that's risky. You don't know how many players are sitting on a stockpile and the value on SoH is going down constantly.
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90 Orc Rogue
5065
Then you get the a$shats who dump stuff on the AH for the same, or less, than it costs to make it. As an engineer we are finally able to make a little gold on Ghost Iron Dragonlings, cogs, and mist piercing goggles. I've been selling the Dragonlings for 250g if there is no competition, and a low of 214g if there is competition on the AH that day. I've been selling at least one, usually 2 or 3 a day. Today a guy lists several for 100g each. On a cheap day the mats would cost me 80g to make them!

I go over to the goggles...they have been 1000-1600g on my server. I just worked a deal to make and sell 3 pair for 3000g because prices last night had a low of around 1250g. The same guy selling the dragonlings had 2 pair of goggles for 600g each! I still had 2 pair of goggles to deliver and didn't want my customer backing out (have been farming the motes to make them with) so I bought the ones on the AH and relisted them at 1250g. I couldn't sell them to my customer because they say who made them...LOL.

I can see undercutting the competition...that is business. But there is no reason to undercut at less than half for an item that sells fine at full price. Obviously you have to do what the particular server market demands, but there will always be those who really mess up the market with absurdly low prices.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14910
Maybe that guy is tired of dealing with competition and just wants to stop babysitting the AH. It happens. You can either buy him out or wait for those things to sell and return the price to normal. It's another case of crafting with extremely common goods, the mats don't cost anywhere near 200g so that price is hard to sustain.

I'll slash prices like that if someone is constantly undercutting my auctions by 1c, I get really, really pissed off at that penny-pinching bull!@#$. I'll sell out and do something else instead of having profits eaten by AH relisting fees. But then I don't use addons to run auctions for me, so messing with the AH costs time.
Edited by Breathkeeper on 12/3/2012 5:21 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13795
Buying out and reposting is always a risky strategy. It's less risky if you're familiar with how prices move for that item on your server, but there's always a risk. My experience has been that that risk increases as the trade volume of the item increases. You're better off starting small -- meaning with markets where volume is low and prices aren't too high.

I made a mistake early on of thinking I'd corner the market in one particular kind of cloth. I bought up tons of cloth mid-week at a high but not ridiculous price, figuring I'd be able to sell it on the weekend for more than I paid. Well, that kind of cloth floods the market every weekend, which I'd have known if I'd watched patterns instead of just jumping in. I ultimately ended up just dumping about half of my stock at half what I'd paid for it.

I guess the moral of that story is: don't let dreams of quick profit keep you from doing at least a bit of research. And if you find you've bought hundreds of stacks of something and you're still unable to reset the price, don't be afraid to admit defeat (stop buying it and start figuring out how to make some of your money back.)
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80 Draenei Death Knight
4150
As a fellow Elixir Master, I have to tell you that flasks normally sell around 100-115g on my server, sometimes more and sometimes less. Typically they never go above 130g, with the most expensive flask being Flask of Winter's Bite due to Fool's Cap costing more than other herbs. Typically, at least on my server, you really rely on procs to make money unless you can find a good bargain on golden lotus.

With that being said however, you still can buyout lower priced flasks. For example, if I see flasks listed for 80g or lower and it's less than say 20 or so, I buy them all out and relist them for the standard 100-120g.
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Maybe that guy is tired of dealing with competition and just wants to stop babysitting the AH. It happens. You can either buy him out or wait for those things to sell and return the price to normal. It's another case of crafting with extremely common goods, the mats don't cost anywhere near 200g so that price is hard to sustain.

I'll slash prices like that if someone is constantly undercutting my auctions by 1c, I get really, really pissed off at that penny-pinching bull!@#$. I'll sell out and do something else instead of having profits eaten by AH relisting fees. But then I don't use addons to run auctions for me, so messing with the AH costs time.


This makes little sense to me. Why would you want to undercut for more than you really have to, unless the auction is priced for too much or you just want to firesale your items?

Undercutting for more is just stupid.
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90 Orc Rogue
5065


This makes little sense to me. Why would you want to undercut for more than you really have to, unless the auction is priced for too much or you just want to firesale your items?

Undercutting for more is just stupid.


YES. Watch the going prices and undercut some. In my example, going prices for ghost iron dragonlings have been consistently selling for 200-300g. I consistently sell them for 214-250g. He could have easily undercut me and sold them for 200g, and actually made a profit. But with mats on a cheap day costing 80g, he's hardly making anything at 100g. Even if he farmed the mats himself, he would have made the same money quicker selling the mats on an average day. He could have priced them at 150g and made a profit, and still undercut everyone else.

The only time I blow stuff out super cheap is when I have to make a ton of junk while leveling a profession.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
15475
If you're leveling, don't necessarily make the cheapest thing either. If you investigate, you'll often things that sell or de for a profit or a small loss. Taking a day to learn even one minor inscription research glyph means you can likely sell that glyph for a small profit.

For instance, I never make white items because with green items, I'll use about the same amount of materials but I'll have something to DE as opposed to vendor.

Learning the synergy of professions is a great boon to your potential profits.
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90 Human Priest
12900
I'd be careful about buying out others. Just be aware that some peeps like to drive out the competition by forcing prices too low to compete. Once you're gone, they come back.

Alchy? Try arcanite bars, invisibility potions, various current flasks, living steel, trillium, etc. The margins for most of these things are rather small, e.g., trillium, but you can make up for it in mass sales. I'd love to know how much gold I've made off arcanite bars over the years. I know they paid for my first flying mount.
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Maybe that guy is tired of dealing with competition and just wants to stop babysitting the AH.

Yes he probably made them levelling and just wanted to get rid of them.

I don't sell things on the AH much, as I'm content with whatever gold I get from quests. But when I do I find that if I list them at the current price, or a few gold under, they never sell. Never. This is regardless of what they are, old, new, rare or common items.

If I list them at 80% or so of the going rate then theres a 50/50 chance they will sell. The only way to ensure they will sell first time is to list them at roughly 60% of the going rate. Since I only rarely sell things on the AH, and since having things get returned in the mail annoys me, this is what I usually do.

I don't get how people can sell things on the AH and make a profit. I guess they must be prepared to list and relist over and over until they catch the market at just the right time.
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90 Tauren Druid
10955
A few concepts to help you:

1. When you price the item at 60%, someone will buy it to flip it. You are giving your gold to that guy.

2. Current selling price in the AH is frequently above actual market price. Especially for quick moving items, the ones at market price will have already sold.

3. Auction house addons are game changers. Auctionator allows me to analyze prices in different ways, easily see the current value of mats vs the current value of the crafted item, and quickly relist my item if I choose to fight back against under cutting. You probably want to check your auction in 5 or 10 minutes and see if it's still the cheapest one.

4. As you have already notice, selling is work. People get paid a lot of money to do it in real life. If you want to sell your item, you have to put in the work to make it happen. You are playing a game, and so you don't want to work at this part of it, and that is fine.
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90 Pandaren Priest
14910
Maybe that guy is tired of dealing with competition and just wants to stop babysitting the AH. It happens. You can either buy him out or wait for those things to sell and return the price to normal. It's another case of crafting with extremely common goods, the mats don't cost anywhere near 200g so that price is hard to sustain.

I'll slash prices like that if someone is constantly undercutting my auctions by 1c, I get really, really pissed off at that penny-pinching bull!@#$. I'll sell out and do something else instead of having profits eaten by AH relisting fees. But then I don't use addons to run auctions for me, so messing with the AH costs time.


This makes little sense to me. Why would you want to undercut for more than you really have to, unless the auction is priced for too much or you just want to firesale your items?

Undercutting for more is just stupid.
It's the same reason in a real auction you bid a lot higher than a competitor. It pushes them back and makes them re-evaluate how badly they want it. If I can make you think my price is stupid, I force you into either leaving me alone or buying me out. Continuing the petty one-upping is just going to lead there eventually, so I'll cut right to it. That's mostly for low volume & low demand items, not commodities like flasks.

Again, playing the AH costs me time. I like raising funds for various stuff, but ultimately I'd rather be doing something other than poking the auctioneer and watching to make sure I cancel and relist to maintain the lowest price available. The things I'm selling were collected in idle time, so it's profit to me either way.
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