Totems Aren't Spells

90 Pandaren Shaman
4975
Since Ghostcrawler claims he only reads the role and pvp forums, I am posting this where he reads.

  • Shaman
  • All totems are now considered spells, and summoning totems can be prevented by silencing effects. Searing Totem, Magma Totem, and Fire Elemental totems fall into the Fire school, while all other totems fall under the Nature school.


  • Since when has a totem had a cast time? How is throwing down a stick a spell?

    If you can stop our totems by silencing then druids shouldn't be able to shift during silence. Rogues shouldn't be able to vanish. Mages shouldn't be able to iceblock. Hunters shouldn't be able to arcane shot.

    See where i'm going with this? They are all physical effects. Also thanks, now warlock teams can just blanket silence the shaman while fearing, effectively removing our utility out of the game. I heard us DPS shamans were just too damn good.


    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7004448292

    On Twitter...

    @Ghostcrawler please take a look at the Shaman forums. The way you're going about 'nerfing' them is wrong and for once can you listen to us?

    @Embertaph I don't read the class forums. Players there are too hostile to dissenting opinions from other classes. I read role and pvp ones
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    90 Undead Warlock
    0
    ...no wonder our !@#$ keeps getting nerfed...if all he's listening to is PVP babies, then I am not surprised.
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    100 Human Death Knight
    18775
    You can't negotiate your way out of the nerf by trying to convince people they aren't spells. Traps aren't castable while silenced. Are those spells? Does it matter?

    Reality is they think it's a needed balance change to bring totems down in power. If you think otherwise, argue that rather than trying to convince them they're not spells.

    Also, totems weren't droppable while silenced until Wrath, so it's not like it's some insane thing they pulled out of nowhere.
    Reply Quote
    You can't negotiate your way out of the nerf by trying to convince people they aren't spells. Traps aren't castable while silenced. Are those spells? Does it matter?

    Reality is they think it's a needed balance change to bring totems down in power. If you think otherwise, argue that rather than trying to convince them they're not spells.

    Also, totems weren't droppable while silenced until Wrath, so it's not like it's some insane thing they pulled out of nowhere.


    Check the PTR Discussion forum. We hit the 1,500 post limit and started a new thread. No blue post. He posted it here in response to Ghost Crawlers tweets about he only reads the PVP and Role forums.

    And most of the debate revolves around the lack of survivability of shaman DPS classes after we are getting nerfed for Spriests heals and the difficulty people are having with killing Resto Shamans.
    Edited by Pvtpile on 11/21/2012 12:44 AM PST
    Reply Quote
    100 Human Death Knight
    18775
    You can't negotiate your way out of the nerf by trying to convince people they aren't spells. Traps aren't castable while silenced. Are those spells? Does it matter?

    Reality is they think it's a needed balance change to bring totems down in power. If you think otherwise, argue that rather than trying to convince them they're not spells.

    Also, totems weren't droppable while silenced until Wrath, so it's not like it's some insane thing they pulled out of nowhere.


    Check the PTR Discussion forum. We hit the 1,500 post limit and started a new thread. No blue post. He posted it here in response to Ghost Crawlers tweets about he only reads the PVP and Role forums.

    And most of the debate revolves around the lack of survivability of shaman DPS classes after we are getting nerfed for Spriests heals and the difficulty people are having with killing Resto Shamans.


    That's fine. But this thread is about them not being spells because they are sticks. That's not a reasonable way to get the devs to change their minds.
    Reply Quote
    100 Blood Elf Rogue
    14190
    11/20/2012 10:57 PMPosted by Sharmeleon
    Rogues shouldn't be able to vanish.


    ...Well this is just silly. Who would silence a Rogue?
    Reply Quote
    11/21/2012 01:11 AMPosted by Saihah
    Rogues shouldn't be able to vanish.


    ...Well this is just silly. Who would silence a Rogue?


    I would if it kept you from vanishing nimrod.
    Reply Quote
    90 Draenei Shaman
    7335
    Rogues shouldn't be able to vanish.


    ...Well this is just silly. Who would silence a Rogue?


    Well last week GC didnt think Enhance was ever silenced and compared it to disarming a mage - yes he made that STUPID comparison. Maybe he shouldve watched how Enhance was set up for kills in his own company's stream.

    The simple fact is Elemental and Resto have ALL of their survivability tied to totems. All their survivability tied to a largely immobile stick, with 5 hp. Allowing ALL of their survivability to be locked out will hit Elemental like a ton of bricks - a spec that is already HORRIBLE in PVP. While I believe this nerf is directed squarely at Resto (and perhaps Ele off heals via Spriest OPness) it will not effect Resto quite the same because they have the ability to heal.

    Ele is a spec that has very low mobility. Very low survivability. Is always trained and you want to REDUCE the tools available to it?

    The totem system has been a crutch to the Shaman class for years. It has so many negatives. Little to no mobility, low hp and easily killed, can only drop 1 school at a time, often clunky AI. How can they be seen as overpowered when they have so many disadvantages over regular buffs/cooldowns? We rely on them so much for any kind of utility. Developers moved us to become so dependent on them and now theyre cutting them from under our feet?

    This change without some compensation in the way of usable defensive cooldowns is absolutely ridiculous and will absolutely destroy any competitive Elemental PVP and cripple Enhance greatly.

    Develops need to realise that Resto isnt the only PVP spec, these changes effect all 3 trees greatly.
    Edited by Misnthropia on 11/21/2012 2:36 AM PST
    Reply Quote
    90 Pandaren Shaman
    4975
    All I did was copy and paste the original post/thread title (not mine, hence the quotes) so people from the PTR forum could find it here.

    Unless you've played a shaman, you will never understand how our survival is. Click on the original thread, learn something from it.

    Once people realize silencing us affects our totem drops, they will start to aim their silences towards us a whole lot more. I can't tell you how many times, right now, that I've currently been silenced and being able to drop Stone Bulwark til it wore off or drop grounding to avoid a Deep Freeze has saved me.

    I've posted this in the forums that GC claims to read, as you can tell by looking here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200030209#1
    Edited by Sharmeleon on 11/21/2012 2:39 AM PST
    Reply Quote
    42 Draenei Mage
    550
    You're right. Totems aren't spells.

    They're going to be spells next patch though.

    Hope that clears up the confusion.
    Reply Quote
    90 Pandaren Shaman
    4975
    I appreciate the bump to our thread.
    Reply Quote
    You're right. Totems aren't spells.

    They're going to be spells next patch though.

    Hope that clears up the confusion.


    No...they're still going to be totems, just now they'll be even weaker, making it easier for scrub !@# mages to cc chain.
    Reply Quote
    86 Troll Monk
    7680
    11/21/2012 04:43 AMPosted by Mokei
    No...they're still going to be totems, just now they'll be even weaker, making it easier for scrub !@# mages to cc chain.


    Not just mages.

    8 classes have access to blanket silence effects. In addition, all Blood Elves also have a blanket silence effect. This means that a vast majority of classes will be able to shut down a Shaman's ablility to do anything with a single ability. Some classes have multiple silences, such as DK, so even if we trinket out of one, we could end up shut down by another.
    Reply Quote
    63 Orc Rogue
    1195
    If ghostcrawler is still a fan of mages then maybe he got mad that his spells werent killing totems efficiently...I know personally on those monk statues that dots and bleeds do no damage and are immune to it.... maybe he tried to auto attack it instead.

    Silence is the answer. Bubbles, spellsteal, silence, vanish, etc...

    but shaman totems are too op?

    This thread is in 3 different sections and probably close to 2,000 responses from all different classes saying to not do it... Not one response from anyone explaining why they want this change.

    If blizz ran a country it would be a terrible dictatorship
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    I think they locked the Shaman playtesters in the closet or something, this doesn't make any sense.

    I mean, if Blizzard thinks that Resto needs a nerfs, couldn't they find some way to do it without totally destroying Elemental in the process.

    There is zero logic behind this nerf.
    Reply Quote
    86 Troll Monk
    7680
    I think they locked the Shaman playtesters in the closet or something, this doesn't make any sense.

    I mean, if Blizzard thinks that Resto needs a nerfs, couldn't they find some way to do it without totally destroying Elemental in the process.

    There is zero logic behind this nerf.


    Not just Elemental. This nerf will also greatly affect Enhance as well, limiting them to only a handful of abilities if hit with a silence, as many of Enhance's toolkit is spells, rather than physical abilities.
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    If Blizzard wants to kill an entire class in one swing of the nerf bat, this is the way to do it.
    Reply Quote
    86 Troll Monk
    7680
    11/21/2012 07:20 AMPosted by Arbiter
    If Blizzard wants to kill an entire class in one swing of the nerf bat, this is the way to do it.


    Don't forget, we're getting hit with it a second time in regards to OffSpec healing, further crippling Ele/Enh.

    I've shelved my Shaman, and will begin leveling a mage later on today.
    Reply Quote
    100 Troll Hunter
    16450
    Totems are a significant impact (at least, the used to be...I will admit I haven't kept quite up to date with them, but aren't they all sort of CD based now?). As such, some measure of control should be needed.

    Now, being able to one-shot them doesn't always work, sometimes them being there even for a second (Grounding Totem) is enough.

    So, how about this, 2 types of totems
    1) Has a health bar (i.e. elemental or damage based totems, ones that have an effect over time)
    2) Can be locked out (i.e. interrupt/silence), but doesn't have a health bar

    Alternatively, they could also make them disarmable, instead of silencable. Kinda hard to plant a totem without arms, right +)
    Reply Quote
    90 Orc Shaman
    13955
    You're right. Totems aren't spells.

    They're going to be spells next patch though.

    Hope that clears up the confusion.


    No...they're still going to be totems, just now they'll be even weaker, making it easier for scrub !@# mages to cc chain.


    No no, they will be CONSIDERED spells. See, by using that word they can justify gutting the lore!

    They aren't spells, they just suffer the consequences as if they were them!
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