Totems Aren't Spells

100 Worgen Hunter
13240
12/01/2012 02:55 PMPosted by Trollinthndr
How about ranged with all the stats needed by melee, that means hit to melee levels and the need for expertise.


*looks at the disparity that enhancement had dealt with 7 years prior to mists, and laughs at this statement heartily*

Totems are clearly spells


then make them not killable by a level 1 kitten. no reason they should have the drawbacks of BOTH spells and physical objects. they arent that powerful compared to other classes' effects (as they may have been considered in the past but class homogenation has killed that)


They are powerful because they offer options. You can't compare abilities one to one. Shaman have so many more useful abilities than other classes (which is both a drawback in some situations and an advantage in some situations).

And why is killable related to whether or not it's a spell? Water Elementals die. Bubbles die. Almost all debuffs and buffs can be removed. Spells can be "killed" by being countered, interrupted, silenced, deflected, absorbed, blocked, dodged, etc.
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8 Goblin Warrior
0

How about ranged with all the stats needed by melee, that means hit to melee levels and the need for expertise.

This is misleading, since expertise now functions as spell hit. And if we do go back one expansion, Hunters needed the LEAST stat points spent on accuracy (melee mh hit cap, no expertise), whereas Enhancement Shaman had the MOST (spell hit cap, and expertise). Remember who shares armor with Enhancement? You have no standing on the "I have to budget too much on not missing" argument.
Hince me saying an expansion ago...

12/01/2012 02:55 PMPosted by Trollinthndr
How about ranged with all the stats needed by melee, that means hit to melee levels and the need for expertise.


*looks at the disparity that enhancement had dealt with 7 years prior to mists, and laughs at this statement heartily*
*Looks at the the other two trees you had to chose from years and goes meh.*

Think about it this way, Blizzard has spent the entire time of this game balancing Hunters with how they think Hunters should feel. Add to the fact that they been treating the class as a sort of reverse melee for years makes one think why did they even make the class. Quit focusing on the actual definition of melee and look at how it is designed and balanced. They have been taking it and reversing the ranges one does the primarily damage verses secondary damage. But this hijack needs to end.

Now what are you going to do about this random act of Blizzard stupidity? GC said that he would add a CD to your DPS Specs, but it needs to be sooner rather than later. Are you going to debate us Hunters or shift the focus back to the problem at hand?
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90 Troll Shaman
0
12/01/2012 01:17 PMPosted by Peverell
Totems are clearly spells. You're using mana to magically charge a stick.


Dude, you're STILL making the wrong arguments. So because totems use mana, they're spells? Does that mean my Lava Lash and Stormstrike are also spells and should be affected by silence as well? Because they aren't, and they DO cost mana.

Things aren't so black and white.

12/01/2012 01:17 PMPosted by Peverell
It's a good nerf to Resto, which definitely needed to be nerfed (and still does).


Frost mages are overpowered, so let's nerf Blink and Frost Nova, something the other two specs have. Cool, good work guys. It's not difficult to surgically nerf a spec instead of a whole class mechanic. You've even stated that Blizzard is bad at balancing, yet support the same exact horrible balancing that got our class over-nerfed.

12/01/2012 01:17 PMPosted by Peverell
The other argument WAS about Shaman. I don't care how differently you think they play. You're playing a hybrid. Almost none of us have more than one good spec (if any). You don't deserve two valid specs more than the rest of us deserve two (or even one) just because you missed the point of playing a hybrid instead of a pure.


Warlocks have 3 viable specs in all forms of the game, regardless of how much better each one is at what. All 3 are viable in PvE, all 3 are relatively competitive in PvP. Blizzard CAN in fact do this with every class, but it's not like I can give you a time window on when.

The point of playing a hybrid instead of a pure is so I can hit Stormstrike and then Frost Shock to root another target and then use my incoming stack of Maelstrom to hex that target. Then, as my group and I get feared, I drop a tremor totem to free us for up to 6 seconds. No other spec can perform that same task EXCEPT Enhancement. If a hybrid is supposed to be a healer or tank, why the living bawls would there be an option for a DPS spec? Your logic, once again, is flawed.

Mad bro? I know hunters are in a bad spot at the moment. They've had trouble throughout the years, but you need to stop making horrible arguments against another class because you're spiteful.
Edited by Zamzikhan on 12/2/2012 12:21 PM PST
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90 Troll Shaman
0
12/01/2012 03:55 PMPosted by Peverell
They are powerful because they offer options. You can't compare abilities one to one. Shaman have so many more useful abilities than other classes (which is both a drawback in some situations and an advantage in some situations).


This is an opinion with no real support. I'm sure you wouldn't be saying this with such assurance if Shamans didn't have a healing tree.

12/01/2012 03:55 PMPosted by Peverell
And why is killable related to whether or not it's a spell? Water Elementals die. Bubbles die. Almost all debuffs and buffs can be removed. Spells can be "killed" by being countered, interrupted, silenced, deflected, absorbed, blocked, dodged, etc.


My stormstrike, auto attacks, windfury and lava lash is dodgeable/parryable/blockable. My shocks, Lightning/Chain Lightning, Hex, Healing Surge (no mael) are interruptable/silencable. My Purge, Wind Shear, Spiritwalker's, Elemental Shields, Unleash Elements are affected by silence and lockouts.

Totems are a class mechanic that already have drawbacks in place. When frost nova, Demonic Teleport, Mass Dispel and Hand of Protection and every other spell has 5 hit points and can be one shot by any player as well as being silenced/locked out, come and talk to me. Come and talk to me when hunters can't use Disengage and Frost Trap at the same time, too.

Come at me bro.
Edited by Zamzikhan on 12/2/2012 12:18 PM PST
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100 Worgen Hunter
13240
I was going to point out how flawed and biased your arguments are, then I realized that you neither raid (not even LFR) nor PvP (besides a few 2's arena games). Why, exactly, are you here?
Edited by Peverell on 12/3/2012 7:47 AM PST
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90 Troll Shaman
0
12/03/2012 07:38 AMPosted by Peverell
I was going to point out how flawed and biased your arguments are, then I realized that you neither raid (not even LFR) nor PvP (besides a few 2's arena games). Why, exactly, are you here?


Mad bro?

My totems lift, you don't even lift bro.
Edited by Zamzikhan on 12/3/2012 8:46 AM PST
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94 Draenei Monk
15245
Resto shaman have so many more useful abilities than other classes


I fixed that for you, outside of tremor, everything enhancement has is about standard compared to the rest of the melee. Same for elemental
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100 Worgen Hunter
13240
12/03/2012 08:36 AMPosted by Zamzikhan
I was going to point out how flawed and biased your arguments are, then I realized that you neither raid (not even LFR) nor PvP (besides a few 2's arena games). Why, exactly, are you here?


Mad bro?

My totems lift, you don't even lift bro.


Delightful.
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90 Orc Shaman
11830
I have to wonder if the latest Mage nerf wasn't added to distract the forums from the tactical gutting of DPS Shamans.
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90 Orc Shaman
11830
It does seem to nicely coincide. Perhaps we will just have to once again take over the next developer to community event and force them to ignore relevant about shaman specs while answering softballs, like they did the last time.

Fixed that for you.
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90 Troll Shaman
0
12/03/2012 05:55 PMPosted by Mahanik
It does seem to nicely coincide. Perhaps we will just have to once again take over the next developer to community event and force them to ignore relevant about shaman specs while answering softballs, like they did the last time.

Fixed that for you.


Yea, the sad part about the last Shaman Q&A/Review type thing in Cata is it didn't really accomplish all that much. A couple things were changed as nice QoL's, such as Lightning/Water Shield charges being removed or Enhancement AoE FINALLY being tuned to be functional and fluid. We ended up getting nerfs afterwards for Healing Surge, Wind Shear, Grounding Totem, Purge, etc. But luckily all of those mechanics were also brought in line for other classes as well.

Heh. I remember mages throwing a fit because Spell Steal was going to steal 1 buff instead of 2. I started a bonfire dance.
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90 Troll Shaman
0


Mad bro?

My totems lift, you don't even lift bro.


Delightful.


How's that MM spec doing at the top of the meters?
Edited by Zamzikhan on 12/3/2012 7:00 PM PST
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100 Tauren Shaman
7515
Yes, my totems are spells.

*Spoiler*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the next patch when the shaman use ascendance he will be paralyzed for 10 sec and receive 50% extra damage.
Edited by Toconoco on 12/3/2012 9:10 PM PST
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I am seriously wondering why hunters are trying to derail this thread... Everyone knows that hunters have issues (both pve and pvp) but this is about a broad stroke that really guts pvp shamans and even some pve encounters...

I would be fine with silence locking out certain totems such as searing, elementals, and perhaps capacitor but why should it completely neuter there entire defensive ability? If this is the route that blizz wants to make then my spell reflect(similar to grounding), zerk rage(tremor), shield wall (sham rage), shockwave (capacitor), and avatar(ascendance) suffer the same consequences. Oh and hunters shouldn't "magically" be able to jump back 20 yrds with disengage, communicate with pets(if you silenced your pet should run in circles and hump the opponents leg type ^%$&), have a "magical" ring of axes spinning around them(deterrance), your pet which is crucial to you damage should have 5 hp but be able to be resummoned without a cd (searing totem) oh and you cant summon them when silenced btw.

Well thats my 2c on the subject and oh yeah to the huntard who acts like all shamans just pi@#$d in his cherios grow up a bit will you!
Edited by Beamncoke on 12/6/2012 10:13 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13975
12/06/2012 09:41 AMPosted by Beamncoke
I am seriously wondering why hunters are trying to derail this thread... Everyone knows that hunters have issues (both pve and pvp) but this is about a broad stroke that really guts pvp shamans and even some pve encounters...


I am wondering why this is happening when dps shaman and hunters came together in cata to lobby for buffs.

Throwing stones back at them isn't helping.
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90 Troll Shaman
0
12/06/2012 09:48 AMPosted by Zerovii
I am seriously wondering why hunters are trying to derail this thread... Everyone knows that hunters have issues (both pve and pvp) but this is about a broad stroke that really guts pvp shamans and even some pve encounters...


I am wondering why this is happening when dps shaman and hunters came together in cata to lobby for buffs.

Throwing stones back at them isn't helping.


Just a couple individual players who are mad, not really all hunters.
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90 Orc Shaman
9080
mail wearers must unite!

wait a second maybe thats it, DPS mail just sucks =/

also hunters in dis thread, yes hunters got nerfed to high heaven i'll acknowledge that but DPS shammies are just as bad so rather than argue with the shammies why not lobby for buffs with them.......
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13975
mail wearers must unite!

wait a second maybe thats it, DPS mail just sucks =/

also hunters in dis thread, yes hunters got nerfed to high heaven i'll acknowledge that but DPS shammies are just as bad so rather than argue with the shammies why not lobby for buffs with them.......


Certainly wouldn't hurt, right now they're suffering from the stigma of how bugged stampede was, wish players would get over that and acknowledge that hunters should be able to have as much fun as any other class in the game.

Seems to have done some good, or maybe that was the complete lack of hunter players in cata.
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