240k Chaos bolt......LAUGH OUT LOUD

90 Worgen Warlock
18570
Okay...so no chaosbolt...it becomes a pretty green incinerate just like cata. To offset this now we need to have fel flame hit immolated targets like icelance vs frozen. Conflag can hit like frostbomb detonation. Its the same amount of damage just the mage does it with a couple spells hitting the same gcd or a lock does it with 1 spell.

Except the mage version hits that hard all the time, the lock has 20 sec out of every 2 min that can hit that hard, and its far harder to counter. The mage also has far more control vs a wider array of opponents (ie melee).

In the present burst climate what or where should lock damage come from?
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17 Gnome Rogue
8485
Outside of Chaos Bolts, Destro isn't a threat at all. If you choose to ignore it and let the Warlock free cast, you're pretty much screwed by default. To nerf Chaos Bolt would pretty much make it so Destro isn't viable at all (which is pretty much already dismissed).
Edited by Congie on 12/9/2012 12:09 AM PST
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1 Troll Rogue
0
Frost bomb is dispellable.
You could dispel every one of them as a healer, (not likely, and not really even the best idea, but you get the point) assuming there is only one frosty.

Chaos bolt has to be interrupted or LoS'd.

I'm not saying anything here except you really cannot reasonably compare these two spells. Apples and oranges.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
16710
Let me explain it this way. Destro PvP doesn't put all its eggs in one basket. It has one egg. That egg is an enormous ostrich egg, and your success or failure depends revolves entirely around smashing it over someone else's head or having it shattered in own hands.

Destro has one DoT, and it doesn't hit very hard. Destro has other direct damage spells, but they're low enough damage per cast time that you can't even get past Second Wind with them alone. So there is one and only one tactic for Destro to use to win: live long enough to build some Embers, try not to have to use them all on Ember Tap to stay alive, and hit the other guy with a Chaos Bolt or two. Try to understand that building up to launch monster Chaos Bolts is the central mechanic for the entire spec, and if you take away that burst you have to redesign Destro from the ground up (again).

I do understand why people hate it. They engage a Destro Warlock, they fight back and forth till the Warlock is at 30% health while they're still at 60% health, they think they're winning, and suddenly they're killed in one or two hits. It's hard for them to realize that they weren't winning. Destro damage as far away from evenly distributed as you can get. It's the opposite of the Afflic-PvP pressure tactics of old, because it's all about doing weak pokes at the start to buy the resources for giant nukes later. The metric of advantage in an engagement with a Destro player is not relative health levels, but how many Embers they've been allowed to build up and what tools you have ready to counter a Chaos Bolt.

Those tools do exist. Oh gods, do they exist. There's your basic interrupts and silences, there's forced movement to break casts, there's stuns and other CC that everyone has in abundance now. Then there's all the specialized defenses like Spell Reflect or Ice Block or Touch Of Karma. Everyone has ways to counter Chaos Bolt. I challenge anyone to name me a spec that doesn't have unique ways to punish, negate, or at least mitigate a Chaos Bolt.

The point I was trying to get to was that Destro's problem is not the burst, but that it isn't intuitive to fight. Everyone understands who's winning and who's losing when both sides are doing a relatively steady damage output with occasional spikes or executes. Destro's setup where they effectively bank damage and drop it on you all at once is hard to predict and entirely out of character with what Warlock PvP has been like for years and years. I'm not sure how you could actually change that without scrapping the entire spec.
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the hardest i've been hit by a CB was for 148K, do all the huge CB crits come from ToK?
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90 Undead Warlock
9950
If the Warlock hid behind something and cast, then you should pay attention to the environment.
If you blew all CDs and interrupts trying to lock him down to a kill, you were outplayed.
If you did not know Chaos Bolt hit hard, you need to learn what other classes.

There is a reason the OMG Chaos Bolt threads have all but vanished. People have learned how to counter Chaos Bolt. Well most...
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90 Orc Warlock
13430
Let me explain it this way. Destro PvP doesn't put all its eggs in one basket. It has one egg. That egg is an enormous ostrich egg, and your success or failure depends revolves entirely around smashing it over someone else's head or having it shattered in own hands.

Destro has one DoT, and it doesn't hit very hard. Destro has other direct damage spells, but they're low enough damage per cast time that you can't even get past Second Wind with them alone. So there is one and only one tactic for Destro to use to win: live long enough to build some Embers, try not to have to use them all on Ember Tap to stay alive, and hit the other guy with a Chaos Bolt or two. Try to understand that building up to launch monster Chaos Bolts is the central mechanic for the entire spec, and if you take away that burst you have to redesign Destro from the ground up (again).

I do understand why people hate it. They engage a Destro Warlock, they fight back and forth till the Warlock is at 30% health while they're still at 60% health, they think they're winning, and suddenly they're killed in one or two hits. It's hard for them to realize that they weren't winning. Destro damage as far away from evenly distributed as you can get. It's the opposite of the Afflic-PvP pressure tactics of old, because it's all about doing weak pokes at the start to buy the resources for giant nukes later. The metric of advantage in an engagement with a Destro player is not relative health levels, but how many Embers they've been allowed to build up and what tools you have ready to counter a Chaos Bolt.

Those tools do exist. Oh gods, do they exist. There's your basic interrupts and silences, there's forced movement to break casts, there's stuns and other CC that everyone has in abundance now. Then there's all the specialized defenses like Spell Reflect or Ice Block or Touch Of Karma. Everyone has ways to counter Chaos Bolt. I challenge anyone to name me a spec that doesn't have unique ways to punish, negate, or at least mitigate a Chaos Bolt.

The point I was trying to get to was that Destro's problem is not the burst, but that it isn't intuitive to fight. Everyone understands who's winning and who's losing when both sides are doing a relatively steady damage output with occasional spikes or executes. Destro's setup where they effectively bank damage and drop it on you all at once is hard to predict and entirely out of character with what Warlock PvP has been like for years and years. I'm not sure how you could actually change that without scrapping the entire spec.


My god...that was so eloquently explained, I can hardly believe it. Seriously, good stuff.
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
if you want to nerf chaos bolt, you have to make incinerate and immolate do more than just tickle.

until then, not happening. also, it takes embers. not like a lock can just cast frost bomb every few seconds.
Edited by Aeliel on 12/9/2012 4:04 AM PST
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Look at Ele Shamans.......biggest attack now is from Elemental Blast. Lava Burst hits for 45k crits in nearly top gear.

I'm lucky if it procs a 2nd one, so now I'm up to 75-80k.

I'm getting hit by locks for 120k with chaos bolts, 150k in a single deep freeze.

Chaos Bolt is OP, I don't care if it requires a long hard cast. You have instant fear, so it's not hard to achieve a long cast right after.

Make my Lava Burst hit for 100k Crits and I'll let you keep your 150-200k chaos bolts through 58% resil.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
16710
12/09/2012 09:53 AMPosted by Rollinherbs
Make my Lava Burst hit for 100k Crits and I'll let you keep your 150-200k chaos bolts through 58% resil.


Apples and oranges.

Those 150k Chaos Bolts aren't plain casts, they're the result of stacking two or three cooldowns on top of each other. On its own Chaos Bolt is more likely to hit for 60k than 150k. You have to compare the DPCT to an Elemental Shaman with Ascendance running or similar cooldown investment. Not to mention that you can cast Lava Burst more often than Chaos Bolt, that Lava Burst's cooldown runs even if you're CCed or playing defensively while Chaos Bolt requires active offense to recharge, and that you can get procs for instant Lava Bursts.

If you want to compare Lava Burst to anything in the Destro arsenal go look at Conflagrate. That's the short cooldown mid-sized nuke it's more similar too. The Ele effect most similar to Chaos Bolt would be a 7-stack Fulmination blast; hits hard but requires a lot of time to build up to.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11210
You lost 60% of your HP because you were outgeared and let the said warlock hardcast a 3-second-cast nuke with a blatantly obvious cast graphic that also takes 20-30 seconds of chain-casting to generate the resources for (along with a fair amount of cooldowns and procs to get that high). You deserved the damage. Chaos Bolt is a noob killer. It's practically unusable against skilled players.
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90 Undead Warlock
4340
Why are you guys replying to a thread that was created pre destro and demo nerf? Your replying as if this thread is based on current gameplay.

Since the time this thread was created saced chaos bolts have lost 30% of there damage, chaos wave has been reduced by 33%, the demo auras have been reduced in effect and made dispellable/spell stealable.
Edited by Ithkuil on 12/9/2012 5:53 PM PST
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90 Orc Warlock
11250
PvP w/a lvl 90 lock for a week then comeback when you may just be able to talk smack about anything that we should and shouldnt be able to do.
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90 Draenei Shaman
9365
meh, chaos bolt is fine.

you shouldnt go from 60-0 instantly ever.


Ever get hit by Stormblast with a two hander?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_qsLqw3Kig

<3


Lol you stop that! They might nerf us if they see that!
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90 Dwarf Warrior
13410
What I want to know is (and this is a serious question), why do the Chaos Bolts that I reflect back seem to do nowhere near the kind of damage to the lock as the ones that hit me do to me?

It can't just be Curse of Elements, because the damage difference is a lot more than 5%.

That's really my only complaint, it should be as deadly to them as it is to me so they have to at least think about whether or not to cast it/fake cast it at a warrior.
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90 Human Warlock
13340
What I want to know is (and this is a serious question), why do the Chaos Bolts that I reflect back seem to do nowhere near the kind of damage to the lock as the ones that hit me do to me?

It can't just be Curse of Elements, because the damage difference is a lot more than 5%.

That's really my only complaint, it should be as deadly to them as it is to me so they have to at least think about whether or not to cast it/fake cast it at a warrior.


Perhaps its looking at your crit rate vs the warlocks? The back-end damage of chaos bolt comes from stacking up Crit and Mastery.

The mastery directly increases the effect of Ember consuming spells, and since Chaos Bolt always crits; Crit rating (mostly from the DarkSoul) also acts as a direct damage modifier.

The base bolt itself (without these gimmick modifiers) is actually quite weak. That's the whole problem with the spell warlocks have been trying to convey from day one.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
9190
do plp not look or just side step how res works now. you get 40% res with no pvp gear you get 57% res with full pvp gear on that is ONLY + 17% res from no gear to geared.that is why a lot of plp are just geming for res. i didnot do this do to playing MM and hiting for crap

now lets look at pvp power my hunter in full pvp gear with the pvp weapon and gem for pvp power is at 52%. that meens im puting plp that are new to pvp (no gear 40% res) at -res % yes you can go - in that stat.
i cannot get for the life of me think why they added this type of stat back to the game i thought they took out armor pen from the game do to it makeing plp hit to to hard and that was only for some melee but now that its for everyone aka pvp power (lol at makeing plp go -% res) it's ok.

im geting hit for 100k+ with 57% res. when i try and gear up a alt im geting hit for 200k+ in ONE hit lol. imo this is why plp are going to bots to get there gear for them its just not fun haveing to gear up when you get 1-2 hit all the time.
with the res like this you can not help your a hindrance to the team (if you have no gear) you can not have strategy make plays try and coordinate with the team your just runing in and geting kill in the span of 1 globe cooldown.

i think they need to look at pvp and change the hole thing.
how you get gear (why do we have to get honor gear that is something you should just get. you can have the arena gear for acquiring. it just makes geting in to pvp to hard for alts and plp late to the season and lets face it pvp in this game is not treated the same as pve ((speed of balenceing,new content every patch)) so why do wee have the same rules as pve for the gear)
how you Q up for it (need randoms and full group Q not 1/2 an 1/2)
what the games are (AV race to boss and pve)
make the game to where it's (skill - gear - class) not what it is right now (gear - class - skill) <-this is why wow will never be a Esport
Edited by Futurecop on 12/11/2012 3:45 PM PST
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90 Undead Hunter
10595
Without pvp gear just doing PVE I have hit over 300K pyroblasts on my mage. And thats doin 70k dps. I would hate to see these guys doing over 100k and what they kick out.
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90 Gnome Warlock
7990
11/24/2012 05:06 PMPosted by Jkspiritlink
60-0 instantly


Never instantly. Please rethink that.
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