[5.1] Ret PVP - So what's the verdict?

90 Human Paladin
11870
Stuck at work right now so I haven't had the chance to sit down and look at the 5.1 tweaks in a PvP environment yet.

Anyone want to share their experiences on those adjustments to Ret Pallies in PvP so far?

How's the healing nerf shaping up?

Is the adjustment to turn evil a game changer at all?

How's the DPS overall looking?

Do we need to think of a new glyph / spec juggle to compensate?

Thanks!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Let me put it this way...

I just tried a few bgs, all I can say is get used to the bubble and run tactic...usually just run, pretty much your only defensive option.

The damage is low, compared to the other plate wearers, same as it was...
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9300
I'm having a good time with random BGs and arenas. As a pally, its really important to recognize our value as a team player. If you play like a standard warrior or DK by focusing solely on kill targets, you will seem gimped. To get the highest effectiveness out of ret, you need to be generous with utility. Give other melee your freedoms and use emancipate on yourself. HoP a caster or healer that's getting trained. If it means keeping a 3v2 from becoming a 3v1, keep pumping those heals into team mates.

I havent been having a problem in pvp with our toolkit or damage/healing output. the only thing that ever gets to me is that I find myself to be very CCable, and I'm especially susceptible to fears. The damage threshold seems quite high on them atm.

As a side note, I run DP because I hate being a 30 second champ and a 3 minute loser. The procs really help with sustained damage and heals.
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90 Undead Warlock
0
Is it strange that I came to this thread expecting to here complaints about monks using their roll skill everywhere they went?

Carry on.
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90 Human Paladin
11870
I did a few hours last night and have to say it's a mess atm.

Over 62% resil, 7 piece and still getting globalled is just plain wrong IMHO. Couldn't break the stupid amount of CC in the game and my heals are a joke now.

Whilst Warriors and Mages got shafted, it's fair to say CC is ruining PvP all round.

Going back to casual PvE...
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9340
Let me put it this way...

I just tried a few bgs, all I can say is get used to the bubble and run tactic...usually just run, pretty much your only defensive option.

The damage is low, compared to the other plate wearers, same as it was...


Missing the main thing.

PvP wep. No wonder you have low damage.
I was poppin chops with 100k-120k crits last night.
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90 Human Paladin
11870
Let me put it this way...

I just tried a few bgs, all I can say is get used to the bubble and run tactic...usually just run, pretty much your only defensive option.

The damage is low, compared to the other plate wearers, same as it was...


Missing the main thing.

PvP wep. No wonder you have low damage.
I was poppin chops with 100k-120k crits last night.


Popping no gear randoms maybe.

I had my weapon and it was pointless. You'll spend more time staring at CC cooldowns than you will chopping people up.

I don't think anyone is debating the damage.

It's the ability to even deliver it that's the problem.

Between the out of control CC & big nerf to our self heals, our survivability went to zero with 5.1
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9300
I agree that we are seriously squishy. It is the best choice to train the ret in almost any scenario

Non-pallies argue something like "OMG NOOB PALLY YOU CAN GO INVINCIBLE. NO ONE ELSE CAN DO THAT" but its really a horrible defensive for ret. It's a waste to try to do damage in most situations and it doesnt only have a very low uptime for its CD, but it is very likely that the warriors or priests are going to crush it immediately. When i see a pally bubble, I know that i've won. I simply wait 5 seconds and kill him after.

I saw our self healing as a way to make up for only having a single, weak defensive CD. PVP power allowed that to scale as gear levels increased and others did more damage, but now we're looking pretty weak.

We have insight, and I really like being able to trade damage for survivability by changing stances/seals, but we have to attack to use ours. It does absolutely nothing if we're getting CCd. Stuns and fears are especially bad, fears because we lose distance and don't have an actual gap-closer, meanwhile we're taking up to 40% of our health in damage and not breaking out of the fear. We lose the 8 second time in the fear and then several more seconds trying to reach our target, only to be feared again when we get there.

Seems like we could use some help in pvp now. I find the nerf to our healing as being unjustified, seeing as how central it is for our spec in particular. We are off-healers. Shadow priests are not off-healers.

Lost a lot of my appetite for pvp recently, glad I still like pve though. Our rotation now is fun and rewarding, plus I like being shiny and yellow!
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90 Human Paladin
12400
Removing our heal scaling from PvP power is a blatant mistake. When I first heard about their plan to make PvP power affects either healing or damage, I thought that would never make it to the live realms... it was painfully obvious to me that wasn't a good idea... apparently they didn't think the same.

As it was mentionned multiple times before by other people, it was only a few hybrids that were at fault; nothing that warranted such a blanket nerf to all hybrid specs.

While I can't talk for other specs, anyone that have spent at least a bit of time pvping as ret at lvl 90 knows that we need that healing. It's not a small perk, it's the very core of the spec. We get heavily CCed and pushed around all the time with basically only a 1 min CD stun in our arsenal to try to turn the tide.

We start a lot of fights after taking a fair amount of damage because we spent the first 10-20 sec of them CCed and when we finally get to do something, we have to try to heal as much as we can while trying to close the distance with our ranged opponents and stay out of melee range from the melee ones. Trying to salvage whatever we can before getting CCed again.

For the better and the worst, our style is to survive the onslaught of damage and CC while dealing low damage until we manage to turn the fight around when they finally run out of CCs (or they can't spam them as often after the inital burst).

I feel that nerf just put us behind the curve : there's a lot more people now that can easily outdmg our heals even if we're clever with our positioning / use of CDs. Since we can't go toe to toe with other melees and ranges tend to tear us apart before we get to do anything meaningful if our healing can't keep up, I'm not sure what we can do except dying in the current state of the game.
Edited by Deimos on 11/28/2012 9:14 PM PST
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90 Dwarf Paladin
9290


Missing the main thing.

PvP wep. No wonder you have low damage.
I was poppin chops with 100k-120k crits last night.


Popping no gear randoms maybe.

I had my weapon and it was pointless. You'll spend more time staring at CC cooldowns than you will chopping people up.

I don't think anyone is debating the damage.

It's the ability to even deliver it that's the problem.

Between the out of control CC & big nerf to our self heals, our survivability went to zero with 5.1


is that your only pally? because you're prot with no offspec
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
I feel that nerf just put us behind the curve : there's a lot more people now that can easily outdmg our heals even if we're clever with our positioning / use of CDs. Since we can't go toe to toe with other melees and ranges tend to tear us apart before we get to do anything meaningful if our healing can't keep up, I'm not sure what we can do except dying in the current state of the game.

I'm not sure if the developers thought this through clearly.

I mean I don't mind not being the best thing in pvp, but I just don't feel like I can compete at all now. I have gone through so many bgs since the patch where I just get trained by several enemies and have no way to defend myself at all. That or I'll be fighting some other melee 1v1 just to get blown up and die with my enemy being at half health just to get /spit on.

I'm contemplating rerolling, in it's current state ret pvp is not in any shape or form fun.
Edited by Thaedras on 11/28/2012 9:30 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
11330
Ret no longer makes the ladies wet.

I've been leveling up my Mage and mostly just tanking crap for friends.
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90 Human Paladin
7610
I've been avoiding PvP like the plague on this toon, I still love PvP but in general I feel crazy weak, not like we got nerfed.....everyone else just got a hell of a ton stronger. I don't feel like I should have to pop CD's every 5 mins to feel strong. I wouldn't say Ret "broken" in PvP I just feel like you will spend most of the time being CC'd or attacking a Monk or Blood DK that refuses to die and just laughs in your face >.<
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I think it's fine. I'm really enjoying ret atm. Even with the healing nerf we're still extremely strong.
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90 Human Paladin
14380
I currently run 59% pvp power with conq 2h after 1 upgrade and 58% resilience.
I can tell you, ret is done. you should all go spend 5.1 lvling a warrior or frost dk.

We cannot hope to output the numbers a warrior does. the only thing we did have was out ability to keep them or ourselves alive, now thats gone too.
most warriors kill me before their shockwave even wears off. even after i get demoralizing blows on them. even when i pop a glyphed divine protection. they just eat through it, cuz they can, and we cant.

expect to see this in trade a lot:
"ret pally lf 2's partner. willing to pay 1k per victory. please god guys i cant let go of this toon"

i wouldnt expect any hotfixed for this anytime soon either. go play pve until 5.2, then we'll see how bliz is going to !@#-@@*@#%!! us next
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90 Human Paladin
6675
My concerns are with the healing. We have been stripped of what made us both unique and able to defend ourselves. This change has greatly hurt us and I hope Blizzard takes our posts into account when thinking of what changes need to be done. As a paying customer and one who has put a lot of time and effort into PvP, I am very disappointed with the state of both the pally and PvP in general as resulted from this patch.

To clarify my disappointment in PvP: CC's are way out of control to the point where it's possible to be CC'd for the duration of time it takes to burn you down to nothing. the damage increase and healing decrease has stripped us of our defenses and ability to recover from such burst damage. I don't feel there is much point in trying to get better gear at this point because it doesn't feel like I have any as it is and even if it does help, it does nothing against the constant CC's that result in loss of control for seemingly 50% of the time played. This is very frustrating and I do hope Blizzard is taking these posts into account.
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90 Human Paladin
14380
anyone who wants to try and salvage whats left of ret paladin PVP, please post your suggstions in this thread:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7199032296?page=5#89
Edited by Kwayver on 11/29/2012 4:15 PM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
17040
You people do realize that the devs don't read the class forums right?

So take your lamentations to the PVP forums and quit cluttering the place up if you want your "gripes" seen.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
2530
@Kwayver
I understand we need a bit more dmg out of CDs, but we're not bad enough to plead for a 2's team with gold. I ran with a War for points yesterday and I out damaged him 70% of the games we had. One game, I had 700k dmg and 400k healing while he had 290k.

Since I'm usually the one being focused, I run 65% res and 40% pvp power. I see no point in having a lot pvp power if you're chained CC'd while being focused. If you survive their burst with divine shield and burst healing while kiting, you won. Especially if your partner is free to do damage.
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