5.1 and combustion

90 Orc Death Knight
10750
Mage damage is out of control, the mage in my raid is pretty damn good, often between the top10 mages in the world in damage done, but he's not supposed to pull 20-30% more damage than the rest of us.
Edited by Kainz on 11/29/2012 9:26 AM PST
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90 Draenei Mage
9945
Why do I get the sense that the OP is posting this thread to get attention, Combustion is fine the way it is, it is a lot more cleaner now than the lucky mega pyro+ignite proc- the RnG system treats everyone different. I put a sign in my front yard that says "do not feed the trolls"
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90 Draenei Mage
9945
Mage damage is out of control, the mage in my raid is pretty damn good, often between the top10 mages in the world in damage done, but he's not supposed to pull 20-30% more damage then the rest of us.


Why would anyone care about PvE damage being "to much"- does it not make the boss die faster and allow better progression for a 100% DPS class it is justified. sounds more like you hate progression, I checked your mage's parses the fight he passed everyone up that high was stone guard Yes Aoe Combustion spread is OP plus your mage is 497 I'd hope for 160k I do 100k on stone guard reg with 484. Don't base a AoE fight on a mage's damage
Edited by Largefrosty on 11/29/2012 10:09 AM PST
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You're out of your damn mind if you think that our damage is fine at the moment.
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90 Draenei Mage
9945
11/29/2012 09:28 AMPosted by Melody
You're out of your damn mind if you think that our damage is fine at the moment.
maybe it's the 2 piece 8% bonus I do not have yet
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90 Orc Death Knight
10750
11/29/2012 09:27 AMPosted by Largefrosty
Mage damage is out of control, the mage in my raid is pretty damn good, often between the top10 mages in the world in damage done, but he's not supposed to pull 20-30% more damage then the rest of us.


Why would anyone care about PvE damage being "to much"- does it not make the boss die faster and allow better progression for a 100% DPS class it is justified. sounds more like you hate progression, I checked your mage's parses the fight he passed everyone up that high was stone guard Yes Aoe Combustion spread is OP plus your mage is 497 I'd hope for 160k I do 100k on stone guard reg with 484. Don't base a AoE fight on a mage's damage


Yeah it helps our progression, but balance is important to the game, so it does't encourage class stacking and everybody can feel like they actually matter.
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90 Draenei Mage
9935
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ks1xt1v3ceywiwze/analyze/dd/source/?s=3069&e=3497

Pls no nerf combustion sir


Damn son lol!
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90 Troll Mage
11675
They didn't buff it to compensate for the pyro nerf. They buffed the contribution from Ignite to compensate for the loss of contribution from Pyro. It was supposed to result in about the same damage, but with a greater dependency on using it during a good Ignite. Sounds like they may have overshot that target.


I think you are wrong here, and I'll tell you why. Before the patch : 50% ignite value + 33% pyro value. After the patch: 100% ignite value.

Just looking at those numbers, I really can't imagine for the life of me someone looking at this and trying to compensate the loss of contribution of 33% from the pyro DoT by doubling the value of the ignite. I mean, honestly, it makes not one little bit of sense to even consider doing it that way.
Just for that reason, I think, or almost sure, that the ignite change to combustion was to compensate for the Pyro CD. Nobody can think 50% of ignite value is going to be about the same as 33% of Pyro DoT.

The change to combustion has been on the PTR for a very long time. And yet, it got released that way.... I don't know what to say to that. Everybody knew (or should have known) that it was going to be a massive buff to Fire, and it would of made them really overpowered. Yet it went live.

As of right now, it has been hotfixed. Right now, combustion ticks for 50% of the ignite tick, thus making it weaker than pre 5.1. That just took way, way to long to fix.

Honestly it just seems like Blizzard is having trouble balancing simple mages mechanics.
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90 Draenei Mage
17750
11/28/2012 11:50 AMPosted by Jkspiritlink
4.3 huh? So do you also want to get rid of heating up procs and all of the additional pyros?


Heating Up was a great idea but horribly executed.


Heating Up and Inferno Blast are great ideas, but they need to be completely divorced from "dot spreading". I miss actually being able to competitively and consistently aoe (pre-Cataclysm).
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
11/28/2012 04:47 AMPosted by Lhivera
They didn't buff it to compensate for the pyro nerf. They buffed the contribution from Ignite to compensate for the loss of contribution from Pyro. It was supposed to result in about the same damage, but with a greater dependency on using it during a good Ignite. Sounds like they may have overshot that target.


Because a Mage was really stupid enough to use Combustion without getting a Hot Streak.

I never saw the point of this change but now it's been MEGA nerfed because of this 50% nerf they just applied.
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
11/30/2012 06:29 PMPosted by Atumo
I think you are wrong here, and I'll tell you why. Before the patch : 50% ignite value + 33% pyro value. After the patch: 100% ignite value.


And now it's just 50% Ignite value, so all they did was remove the 33% pyro value.

Definitely not an issue at all, amirite?
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90 Undead Mage
19015
Good job bro. Now we can ask ourselves, Frost or Warlock?
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90 Worgen Mage
3830
12/01/2012 04:57 AMPosted by Malrune
Good job bro. Now we can ask ourselves, Frost or Warlock?

I agree the nerf is too harsh but I'd like to get some insight from people who are actually clearing heroic content and have ilvl 490+ gear instead of mages who have not even touched normal and run around with 14.5% crit.
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Human Mage
10015
12/01/2012 04:02 AMPosted by Pewpewblast
They didn't buff it to compensate for the pyro nerf. They buffed the contribution from Ignite to compensate for the loss of contribution from Pyro. It was supposed to result in about the same damage, but with a greater dependency on using it during a good Ignite. Sounds like they may have overshot that target.


Because a Mage was really stupid enough to use Combustion without getting a Hot Streak.


Before the change, optimal use of Combustion was pretty much on-cooldown. Only things you wanted to check were that Pyro DOT was up (which means you used a Hot Streak sometime in the last 18 seconds) and Ignite was ticking for over 10K (which it almost always was). If you were waiting longer for a bigger ignite, you were losing more from the increased interval than you were gaining from the bigger ticks.

Now, the size of your Ignite matters more, and it's sometimes worthwhile to wait if you're going to be using a Pyro very soon. Although of course now we need to retest in the wake of the nerf and see if that's still the case.
________________________________________________
Find answers to questions about Mage mechanics in
Lhivera’s Compendium • http://lhiveras-library.com/compendium
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1 Undead Mage
0
12/01/2012 05:06 AMPosted by Eggimann
Good job bro. Now we can ask ourselves, Frost or Warlock?

I agree the nerf is too harsh but I'd like to get some insight from people who are actually clearing heroic content and have ilvl 490+ gear instead of mages who have not even touched normal and run around with 14.5% crit.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200053374?page=8#152

^ my calculations for the last two heroic raid bosses i killed. my ilvl is 497.
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90 Undead Mage
19015
12/01/2012 05:06 AMPosted by Eggimann
Good job bro. Now we can ask ourselves, Frost or Warlock?

I agree the nerf is too harsh but I'd like to get some insight


Nice hat.

By insight do you mean which FotM class you should roll next?
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870


Because a Mage was really stupid enough to use Combustion without getting a Hot Streak.


Before the change, optimal use of Combustion was pretty much on-cooldown. Only things you wanted to check were that Pyro DOT was up (which means you used a Hot Streak sometime in the last 18 seconds) and Ignite was ticking for over 10K (which it almost always was). If you were waiting longer for a bigger ignite, you were losing more from the increased interval than you were gaining from the bigger ticks.

Now, the size of your Ignite matters more, and it's sometimes worthwhile to wait if you're going to be using a Pyro very soon. Although of course now we need to retest in the wake of the nerf and see if that's still the case.


Geez Lhiv, I know you play Frost only, but you could at least look up how Fire works...

This couldn't be more wrong. If you're using Combustion with a 10k ignite (pre or post nerfs/buffs/whatever) you'll be seeing a 15-20k combustion. That's pretty weak for our ONLY cooldown.

12/01/2012 05:06 AMPosted by Eggimann
I agree the nerf is too harsh but I'd like to get some insight from people who are actually clearing heroic content and have ilvl 490+ gear instead of mages who have not even touched normal and run around with 14.5% crit.


Rolling with almost 30% crit just self buffed (AB/MA; don't forget Armory doesn't show these). 16/16N and 1/16H cleared. I also just tested it this morning. It's quite a bad nerf.
Edited by Pewpewblast on 12/1/2012 5:43 AM PST
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90 Worgen Mage
3830
12/01/2012 05:33 AMPosted by Malrune

I agree the nerf is too harsh but I'd like to get some insight


Nice hat.

By insight do you mean which FotM class you should roll next?

Nice offhand and trinkets! I don't see your point.
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