4 piece tier bonus - why?

90 Human Death Knight
12195
11/30/2012 10:15 AMPosted by Alvestam
For unholy, who knows, I don't play it because it's terrible.


Unholy rocks this expasion, its my favorite spec right now, maybe you are just terrible at playing it


Gonna have to agree, I put out close if not better numbers as unholy on some fights.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
10910
Yeah, our 4 sets are very disappointing.

tank 4 set means 10% extra death strike heal, but wait, that extra 10% doesn't get added to our blood shield.


Yes it does, that was fixed with 5.1.

Also, 5% str is about equal to 10% haste for frost. For unholy, who knows, I don't play it because it's terrible.

Why I oughta...

And yeah, the tier set bonuses make me sad. The 2 piece results in a ~6% DPS increase for 2H Frost and a ~2% DPS increase for Unholy. Still haven't taken a close look at DW, but I believe it's still ahead of UH as far as benefiting from the 2 piece.

And our 4 piece set bonus is absolutely embarrassing as Unholy. You get 10% more Haste for 30 seconds every 3 minutes? Hell naw.
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90 Orc Death Knight
12190


Yes it does, that was fixed with 5.1.

Also, 5% str is about equal to 10% haste for frost. For unholy, who knows, I don't play it because it's terrible.

Why I oughta...

And yeah, the tier set bonuses make me sad. The 2 piece results in a ~6% DPS increase for 2H Frost and a ~2% DPS increase for Unholy. Still haven't taken a close look at DW, but I believe it's still ahead of UH as far as benefiting from the 2 piece.

And our 4 piece set bonus is absolutely embarrassing as Unholy. You get 10% more Haste for 30 seconds every 3 minutes? Hell naw.


It is indeed poorly thought out and makes me wonder if any thought was actually given at all.
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90 Human Death Knight
13165
All blizzard has to do to better balance the bonuses is add death coil to the 2pc and make the 4pc for unholy something like 10 extra seconds of Dark Transformation, or making it so the ghoul does 10% more damage while transformed.

But yes it does appear that the lead dev for dks doesn't play unholy.
Edited by Dreagan on 11/30/2012 6:52 PM PST
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90 Orc Death Knight
12190
11/30/2012 06:51 PMPosted by Dreagan
All blizzard has to do to better balance the bonuses is add death coil to the 2pc and make the 4pc for unholy something like 10 extra seconds of Dark Transformation, or making it so the ghoul does 10% more damage while transformed.


Or double the amount of extra haste given to Unholy Frenzy.
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90 Human Death Knight
13165
11/30/2012 06:52 PMPosted by Kalut
All blizzard has to do to better balance the bonuses is add death coil to the 2pc and make the 4pc for unholy something like 10 extra seconds of Dark Transformation, or making it so the ghoul does 10% more damage while transformed.


Or double the amount of extra haste given to Unholy Frenzy.


I don't even know if that would do it, since UF is usually given to someone else, and even then its still a bonus to a 1 min cd vs a 3 min cd. I would like to see the bonus given to a cd that unholy uses more. DT would be a decent fit.

I am still crossing my fingers that the 4pc for the next tier includes the lines "Dark Transformation now only requires 3 stacks."
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90 Orc Death Knight
12190


Or double the amount of extra haste given to Unholy Frenzy.


I don't even know if that would do it, since UF is usually given to someone else, and even then its still a bonus to a 1 min cd vs a 3 min cd. I would like to see the bonus given to a cd that unholy uses more. DT would be a decent fit.

I am still crossing my fingers that the 4pc for the next tier includes the lines "Dark Transformation now only requires 3 stacks."


UF isn't given to anyone else anymore since warriors no longer get extra benefit from it. But it is a pretty weak spell to begin with. I'd take anything over this 4 piece. It's so bad that unholy does less dps with the 4 piece than they do without it. I didn't even think that was possible, but they managed to do it. Go figure.
Edited by Kalut on 11/30/2012 7:14 PM PST
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90 Orc Death Knight
8835
@Blood 4pc

145.50% Mastery (with 4pc) = 67,680 blood shield
146.68% Mastery (no 4pc) = 62,035 blood shield

Equalize the masterys, 62035 / (1 + .0118) = 61311
61311 + .1(61311) = 67,442

Mastery goes down, blood shield went up anyway.
Edited by Zionic on 11/30/2012 8:46 PM PST
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90 Orc Death Knight
12190
@Blood 4pc

145.50% Mastery (with 4pc) = 67,680 blood shield
146.68% Mastery (no 4pc) = 62,035 blood shield

Equalize the masterys, 62035 / (1 + .0118) = 61311
61311 + .1(61311) = 67,442

Mastery goes down, blood shield went up anyway.


This is about the dps 4 piece for unholy. I'm not one to say how good or not good the set is for blood, I wouldn't know from experience.
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90 Orc Death Knight
8835
11/30/2012 10:06 PMPosted by Kalut
This is about the dps 4 piece for unholy. I'm not one to say how good or not good the set is for blood, I wouldn't know from experience.

I was referencing this:

tank 4 set means 10% extra death strike heal, but wait, that extra 10% doesn't get added to our blood shield.
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90 Orc Death Knight
13885
I got the solution......instead of increasing haste more for UF........reduce its cooldown...yeah it no longer lines up with gargoyle....but ....and I say but.....we get to use it more
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1 Human Warrior
0
11/28/2012 10:23 AMPosted by Serious
The 2 piece bonus is also biased towards frost. I feel like death coil should be on there with SS.


Frost Strikes damage being buffed from the 2-set isn't "terribly biased" it's nice for 2h frost, it really is, I admit that, but at the same time, Blizzard is just taking into account DW Masterfrost.

In all seriousness though, I don't see why people are still on the Unholy-train, so much ramp up time, bad pet AI, plus the fact that Unholy feels like a gimped version of its former self.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
6900
12/03/2012 01:24 AMPosted by Mildfairy
In all seriousness though, I don't see why people are still on the Unholy-train, so much ramp up time, bad pet AI, plus the fact that Unholy feels like a gimped version of its former self.


Maybe because some of us don't like frost's playstyle. I wouldn't have stuck with unholy nonstop since WOTLK if I didn't enjoy playing it.
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90 Orc Death Knight
8115
Frost Strikes damage being buffed from the 2-set isn't "terribly biased" it's nice for 2h frost, it really is, I admit that, but at the same time, Blizzard is just taking into account DW Masterfrost.

In all seriousness though, I don't see why people are still on the Unholy-train, so much ramp up time, bad pet AI, plus the fact that Unholy feels like a gimped version of its former self.


Point is it does benefit frost more than Unholy. Also maybe some people just like playing Unholy?
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90 Gnome Death Knight
6210
Frost Strikes damage being buffed from the 2-set isn't "terribly biased" it's nice for 2h frost, it really is, I admit that, but at the same time, Blizzard is just taking into account DW Masterfrost.

In all seriousness though, I don't see why people are still on the Unholy-train, so much ramp up time, bad pet AI, plus the fact that Unholy feels like a gimped version of its former self.


Point is it does benefit frost more than Unholy. Also maybe some people just like playing Unholy?


you don't understand. 2H frost is the spec that gets the double dipping (DW doesn't) but 2H is still worse than DW in terms of dmg both single target and aoe.

Removing obliterate from the set bonus doesn't make frost any weaker at all it just forces people into DW frost instead of 2H frost and removing frost strike means DW frost gets no benefit from it.
Edited by Aldmos on 12/3/2012 5:43 PM PST
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90 Orc Death Knight
8115
you don't understand. 2H frost is the spec that gets the double dipping (DW doesn't) but 2H is still worse than DW in terms of dmg both single target and aoe.

Removing obliterate from the set bonus doesn't make frost any weaker at all it just forces people into DW frost instead of 2H frost and removing frost strike means DW frost gets no benefit from it.


True
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90 Orc Death Knight
12190
The 2 piece bonus is also biased towards frost. I feel like death coil should be on there with SS.


Frost Strikes damage being buffed from the 2-set isn't "terribly biased" it's nice for 2h frost, it really is, I admit that, but at the same time, Blizzard is just taking into account DW Masterfrost.

In all seriousness though, I don't see why people are still on the Unholy-train, so much ramp up time, bad pet AI, plus the fact that Unholy feels like a gimped version of its former self.


People are on the unholy train? Since when? Seriously 90% of raiding DK dps are frost. Probably more than that. In fact, there are so few pro unholy that we don't even have enough samples to create proper logs for reliable dps comparison vs frost. Do you even know what you're talking about? Unholy has been the under-dog for 3 expansions when it comes to raiding.

Also bump. Was disappointed to see no fix to the 4 piece in today's patch notes.
Edited by Kalut on 12/4/2012 5:13 AM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
14005
Most dk's are on the frost train, but unholy isn't underrepresented like other specs from other classes (sub rogues :|). It's unattractive for lots of reasons. Timmy micromanagement is annoying, considering how much damage he's accountable for. He's only being awesome when transformed and behind the target. Rune overflow is another. It's so easy to overflow runes in a light movement style fight. A full rune is an unhappy rune! The tier bonus is really unfavorable to unholy as well. The 2 piece and 4 piece are both severly gimped for unholy. Letting frost take advantage of 2 primary abilities and unholy gets 1? 10% haste for unholy frenzy? Yeah, because unholy needs more haste.

While unholy is obviously gimped right now, I'm actually going to try it first hand this week and get a look at what other changes it could use. It'll be weird actually having cooldowns on non 60 sec timer!
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90 Orc Death Knight
12190
Most dk's are on the frost train, but unholy isn't underrepresented like other specs from other classes (sub rogues :|). It's unattractive for lots of reasons. Timmy micromanagement is annoying, considering how much damage he's accountable for. He's only being awesome when transformed and behind the target. Rune overflow is another. It's so easy to overflow runes in a light movement style fight. A full rune is an unhappy rune! The tier bonus is really unfavorable to unholy as well. The 2 piece and 4 piece are both severly gimped for unholy. Letting frost take advantage of 2 primary abilities and unholy gets 1? 10% haste for unholy frenzy? Yeah, because unholy needs more haste.

While unholy is obviously gimped right now, I'm actually going to try it first hand this week and get a look at what other changes it could use. It'll be weird actually having cooldowns on non 60 sec timer!


Unholy is harder than frost by a significant amount (in fact we are the highest APM spec in game), and what do we get for it? Less dps.

But anyway that is getting off topic, the purpose of this thread is trying to get the 4 piece fixed.
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90 Orc Death Knight
9180
11/30/2012 10:15 AMPosted by Alvestam
Unholy rocks this expasion, its my favorite spec right now, maybe you are just terrible at playing it

Is that why your playing 2H Frost?
Edited by Havock on 12/4/2012 6:43 AM PST
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