4 piece tier bonus - why?

90 Draenei Death Knight
6900
12/04/2012 05:11 AMPosted by Kalut
Unholy has been the under-dog for 3 expansions when it comes to raiding.


Unholy was amazing with Gurthalak. Most fights, I was top dps by a good amount in my DS raid group, and I only had the LFR version. That sword seemed to be custom made for unholy.

WTB a level 90 2h strength raid weapon with an OP proc that scales off mastery.
Edited by Vyeeria on 12/4/2012 6:54 AM PST
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100 Orc Death Knight
13430
12/04/2012 06:52 AMPosted by Vyeeria
Unholy has been the under-dog for 3 expansions when it comes to raiding.


Unholy was amazing with Gurthalak. Most fights, I was top dps by a good amount in my DS raid group, and I only had the LFR version. That sword seemed to be custom made for unholy.

WTB a level 90 2h strength raid weapon with an OP proc that scales off mastery.


The fact that you use one weapon in one raid to make a point just proves how terrible the spec is.
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100 Orc Death Knight
13430
bump
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1 Human Warrior
0


Unholy was amazing with Gurthalak. Most fights, I was top dps by a good amount in my DS raid group, and I only had the LFR version. That sword seemed to be custom made for unholy.

WTB a level 90 2h strength raid weapon with an OP proc that scales off mastery.


The fact that you use one weapon in one raid to make a point just proves how terrible the spec is.


Implying Unholy wasn't what most dk's were playing as in ICC
Implying Unholy was terrible during t11
Implying Unholy didn't have fans in DS

Protip: people=/=majority of raiders.
I was mainly talking about the vocal minority in this thread.
Edited by Mildfairy on 12/4/2012 7:40 PM PST
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100 Draenei Death Knight
13380


The fact that you use one weapon in one raid to make a point just proves how terrible the spec is.


Implying Unholy wasn't what most dk's were playing as in ICC
Implying Unholy was terrible during t11
Implying Unholy didn't have fans in DS

Protip: people=/=majority of raiders.
I was mainly talking about the vocal minority in this thread.

I don't think he was ever implying that. Take your strawman arguments and crawl back under that rock you came from.
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1 Human Warrior
0
12/04/2012 07:07 AMPosted by Kalut
[quote]Unholy has been the under-dog for 3 expansions when it comes to raiding.

The fact that you use one weapon in one raid to make a point just proves how terrible the spec is.



I don't think he was ever implying that. Take your strawman arguments and crawl back under that rock you came from.


Yes, that's totally a strawman argument I'm using.
(The Key-phrase being: "one weapon in one raid")
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
Set bonuses buried unholy completely, it wasn't too far behnd then.

I see it making a come back, but not this tier, I enjoy UH's playstyle more than frost, but the 2 piece only affecting SS, while Oblit AND Frost strike both get buffed, and the 4piece being so underwhelming.
Edited by Postonforums on 12/5/2012 1:24 AM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
13390
Unholy is seriously fine at the moment.

Most bosses as of now have an 'enrage; mechanic at 35-20% health and that's where your DPS really matters.

You'll always be on par if not slightly behind on frost on a single target. I was doing 135k single target DPS before H empress phase changed. The chart went : Lock Lock Lock Enh Me

You should always have death coil as top damage,followed by soul reaper/blood plague if you're reforging to mastery which you jolly well should as death coil makes up for a TON of your damage. At high levels of gear,you won't even have the need to use unholy frenzy on yourself with the amount of haste you have and can pass it onto someone who'd benefit from it more,like a retribution/protection paladin.

Me and my frost DK are always head to head on fights and we have relatively same gear. Any buffing,especially if death coil was added to the 2p,done to unholy will just allow it to truimph over frost hands down.

Having to micromanage a pet has always been the fundamental of unholy. You need to know when to hold onto sudden doom procs,whether to hold onto runes/runic in preparation of dark transformation dropping off,doing a proper opener and speeding up unholy's absurdly slow ramp up time and I'm sure I missed out other things which will severely close the gap of frost-unholy DPS.
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90 Human Death Knight
12370
Unholy is seriously fine at the moment.

Most bosses as of now have an 'enrage; mechanic at 35-20% health and that's where your DPS really matters.

You'll always be on par if not slightly behind on frost on a single target. I was doing 135k single target DPS before H empress phase changed. The chart went : Lock Lock Lock Enh Me

You should always have death coil as top damage,followed by soul reaper/blood plague if you're reforging to mastery which you jolly well should as death coil makes up for a TON of your damage. At high levels of gear,you won't even have the need to use unholy frenzy on yourself with the amount of haste you have and can pass it onto someone who'd benefit from it more,like a retribution/protection paladin.

Me and my frost DK are always head to head on fights and we have relatively same gear. Any buffing,especially if death coil was added to the 2p,done to unholy will just allow it to truimph over frost hands down.

Having to micromanage a pet has always been the fundamental of unholy. You need to know when to hold onto sudden doom procs,whether to hold onto runes/runic in preparation of dark transformation dropping off,doing a proper opener and speeding up unholy's absurdly slow ramp up time and I'm sure I missed out other things which will severely close the gap of frost-unholy DPS.


Forswear, is ther a amount of haste that you like to be at before going to mastery?
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90 Human Death Knight
13390


Forswear, is ther a amount of haste that you like to be at before going to mastery?


There SHOULD be one but I just can't figure it out for the life of me and I just went straight up full mastery instead. You probably can't find it from simming as having x amount of haste is due to personal preference. I used to have 19.28% haste but I'm now 13.94% and it feels clunky. The 'mark' is probably around 16-17% from memory,when my haste increased due to gear from the 17% mark I didn't really feel any drastic change.

I ended up with a much lower apm playstyle and higher damage along with having my runic corruptions feeling rewarding for the first time,due to inverse haste scaling.
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90 Human Death Knight
12370


Forswear, is ther a amount of haste that you like to be at before going to mastery?


There SHOULD be one but I just can't figure it out for the life of me and I just went straight up full mastery instead. You probably can't find it from simming as having x amount of haste is due to personal preference. I used to have 19.28% haste but I'm now 13.94% and it feels clunky. The 'mark' is probably around 16-17% from memory,when my haste increased due to gear from the 17% mark I didn't really feel any drastic change.

I ended up with a much lower apm playstyle and higher damage along with having my runic corruptions feeling rewarding for the first time,due to inverse haste scaling.


You sir get a gold star for your help, thanks man!
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100 Orc Death Knight
13430


Forswear, is ther a amount of haste that you like to be at before going to mastery?


There SHOULD be one but I just can't figure it out for the life of me and I just went straight up full mastery instead. You probably can't find it from simming as having x amount of haste is due to personal preference. I used to have 19.28% haste but I'm now 13.94% and it feels clunky. The 'mark' is probably around 16-17% from memory,when my haste increased due to gear from the 17% mark I didn't really feel any drastic change.

I ended up with a much lower apm playstyle and higher damage along with having my runic corruptions feeling rewarding for the first time,due to inverse haste scaling.


You should absolutely not stack mastery as unholy. Haste is still our best secondary stat even with the diminishing returns. Mastery is our worst.
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90 Human Death Knight
13390
You should absolutely not stack mastery as unholy. Haste is still our best secondary stat even with the diminishing returns. Mastery is our worst.


If you're in normal level gear yeah for sure.

I'm talking about being in heroic level gear where you get so much haste from gear alone. If you start gemming haste past x amount,you get gcd capped with haste-filled runic corruptions and rune regen speed.

Like I've said,there's a haste/mastery break point which you should be aiming for according to your personal preference.

Sims can never be relied on for every single encounter due to the difference in mechanics. I'm done with progression other than sha and I can rely on my raid's damage to bring the boss down to soul reaper range and that's usually when the most important phase starts on bosses.
Edited by Forswear on 12/6/2012 3:43 AM PST
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100 Orc Death Knight
13430
12/06/2012 03:23 AMPosted by Forswear
You should absolutely not stack mastery as unholy. Haste is still our best secondary stat even with the diminishing returns. Mastery is our worst.


If you're in normal level gear yeah for sure.

I'm talking about being in heroic level gear where you get so much haste from gear alone. If you start gemming haste past x amount,you get gcd capped with haste-filled runic corruptions and rune regen speed.

Like I've said,there's a haste/mastery break point which you should be aiming for according to your personal preference.

Sims can never be relied on for every single encounter due to the difference in mechanics. I'm done with progression other than sha and I can rely on my raid's damage to bring the boss down to soul reaper range and that's usually when the most important phase starts on bosses.


I was replying to when you said you just went for pure mastery. Bad idea no matter what gear level.
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100 Orc Death Knight
13430
Bump. Issue STILL not fixed :(
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90 Orc Death Knight
8835
12/10/2012 03:34 PMPosted by Lifenite
The 2 piece isn't any better. It seems like since Firelands frost always gets favored for set bonuses. I don't see why it effects both obliterate and frost strike and only scourge strike for unholy...why not SS and death coil? I never got the reasoning for letting frost double dip on the 2p bonus.

Maybe, just maybe, the same way Blizzard tells us DW is bad for Blood, they're telling you Unholy is bad for PvE?

Subtle hints -- Remove 1H from Blood loot tables in LFR, give Unholy crappy set bonuses.
You have to take the hints.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
12/10/2012 03:42 PMPosted by Zionic
Maybe, just maybe, the same way Blizzard tells us DW is bad for Blood, they're telling you Unholy is bad for PvE?


Would all make sense, if Unholy was good for pvp, but frost wins there too.
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90 Gnome Warlock
8370
I think everyone is confusing Haste/Strength rating with Haste/Strength percent increase.
5 Strength > 10 haste
But 5% increased strength < 10% increased haste.

11/29/2012 07:31 PMPosted by Nósduh
5% aditional strength is pretty significant when we have ~15-16k. 18k+ fully raid buffed.

If you have 18K fully buffed 5% increase would be 900 strength, or 300 strength on average because of 1/3 uptime
10% haste would require 4250 haste rating, or 708 haste on average because of 1/6 uptime, and that's not even including the fact that it stacks with the haste you allready have.
~300 strength vs ~708haste(more once you add haste rating increase) doesn't seem that far off
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