5.1 LFR queue change?

90 Undead Warlock
14205
Prior to the 5.1 patch, when my LFR queue would pop, I would see the available bosses (which were dead or alive). Now with 5.1, I can no longer see that information. I've not accepted any queue pops yet, because of this. I'm assuming ones with no info would be fresh runs, but I'm not sure. Not really wanting to do a full run. I'd like to wait for a queue pop that is on a boss I want, rather than having to wait through a few bosses that I don't want anything from... then risk of dying due to a bunch of... not-so-bright people.

Was the queue system changed or am I just experiencing some weird bug?
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90 Undead Warlock
14205
I don't see how not informing us of the available bosses would shorten the queue time. Would just go in and if it's at the 1st boss, but the player wants the 2nd or 3rd, they'd either drop or log to another toon.

They should allow players the option of picking either fresh or in-progress queues.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11655
working as intended.

To reduce queue times, they don't want people AFK fishing for queues. It's the same reason they put a 15-minute timer on dungeon queues, to stop Tanks from farming the first boss and dropping group repeatedly.


Link to proof of that?

Hope we can get some info on this.
Intended? Bug? Who knows. Seems weird.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11655
Did some digging and found it:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/7922040/51_Landfall_Now_Live_and_Patch_Notes-11_27_2012
The Raid Finder system will no longer provide a notification regarding how many bosses have been defeated in an instance. Joining and completing a partially cleared raid will ensure a fresh instance when the player next queues.

Joining and then quickly leaving a partially cleared Raid Finder raid will give a deserter debuff, restricting re-queuing for 30 minutes.
Edited by Purdyone on 11/28/2012 11:01 PM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
10295
11/28/2012 10:59 PMPosted by Purdyone
Joining and completing a partially cleared raid will ensure a fresh instance when the player next queues.


If that were true I wouldn't be so unhappy with the change. However there is an addon for this: RaiderFinderFix
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90 Undead Warlock
14205
I would much rather have the old LFR queue system.

Last night I spent around 20 mins in queue for Heart of Fear 1st half. Something I wanted a full clear with. Instead I got put into a group on the last boss. If I had seen that prior to entering, I'd leave queue and re-enter queue.

Same would go for MV LFR. If I got a fresh queue pop, I'd leave queue and re-enter queue, because I only want the last bosses for the VP from that one.

I don't see a point in not informing us of the progress. Saves us time from entering one that may either be at the end or start, depending on what bosses the user wanted to kill. Their was no problem with the system before. When we were short people for a boss, we usually got new people rather quickly.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
4490
I think the point is they do not want you to know the progress of the raid so you can select the boss you want and then leave after you got it.

Having players do this can seriously impair the groups ability to complete the raid if they are constantly having to bring in new memebers .

I have seen too many raid from LFR simply fall about from Players who want to cherry pick the boss they want and then leave once they get it.

I am not sure this way is the best way to deal with the problem though.
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90 Draenei Shaman
10295
11/29/2012 04:47 AMPosted by Ssinfull
I have seen too many raid from LFR simply fall about from Players who want to cherry pick the boss they want and then leave once they get it.


Ssinful, the only reason I'm "cherry picking" bosses is that I've already killed them that week, maybe 2 or 3 times, trying for the single one I need. It's a repair bill to me and a complete (and resented) waste of time. I don't have 2-4 hours of extra LFR time to repeat bosses on the off chance I'll get the one I still need. As it is I'm spending more time than I like gearing this toon still, and completely ignoring my beloved alts.
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90 Human Warrior
16605
11/29/2012 01:32 AMPosted by Cruciarius
Last night I spent around 20 mins in queue for Heart of Fear 1st half. Something I wanted a full clear with. Instead I got put into a group on the last boss. If I had seen that prior to entering, I'd leave queue and re-enter queue.


Ok, walk thru this very carefully.

You just sat thru a 20min que and you get the last boss only. You would rather not take it and sit thru another 20 min que where you might get the last boss again over taking that que, doing the last boss which takes X amount of time, getting your VP and chance at gear t hen reque'ing and getting a guaranteed fresh run where you do the first 2 bosses with a chance at gear?

Again, lets say the que time is 20 mins. Lets say each boss plus trash takes 10 mins. Thats 50 mins for a fresh run the first time.

If you don't get a fresh run the first time, its a 20 min que, then 10 mins for the last boss. Then a 20 min que and 20 mins for the first 2 bosses. Net time 70 mins.

If you don't get a fresh run the first time, you drop que, reque, for 20 mins then spend 30 mins in the raid for a net time of 70 mins MAYBE. You still might not get a fresh run which means if you keep re-queing for a fresh run you are extending your overall time more and more and more.

Just take the partial run, re-que and get the guaranteed fresh run. That is the surest bet if you don't get lucky and get a fresh run your first time.

As for the request to get 'fresh run only' good luck with that. You get your fresh run, down the first boss and people start leaving for various reasons. Somehow you power thru the 2nd boss and get to the third where more people have left. And nobody is joining your group because they all have 'fresh run option' turned on. So now you are stuck in a run that will never finish. There's no point dropping and re-que'ing because the same t hing will happen in that next run, too.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
4490
I have seen too many raid from LFR simply fall about from Players who want to cherry pick the boss they want and then leave once they get it.


Ssinful, the only reason I'm "cherry picking" bosses is that I've already killed them that week, maybe 2 or 3 times, trying for the single one I need. It's a repair bill to me and a complete (and resented) waste of time. I don't have 2-4 hours of extra LFR time to repeat bosses on the off chance I'll get the one I still need. As it is I'm spending more time than I like gearing this toon still, and completely ignoring my beloved alts.


I understand where your coming from but everyone has "their reason" for only wanting to do certain bosses.. it does not negate the problem of constantly having to replace people

If you could solo raids you can do what you want.. but the fact is you have 24 other players in the raid besides yourself.. so while I understand why you do not want to do all of the raid or only one boss.. ( and I do not want to sound like I do not care) the goals of one player take a back seat to the goals of the raid as a whole.

MoP overall is not alt friendly at the end of Cata I had 22 toons at 85 16 of them geared to end game raiding with Ilvl 380+

Right now I have 4 at 90 and I have just started the gear grind for raiding on my shammy.. the other three will have to wait til I have time

Again MoP is not Alt friendly .. I really wish it was
Edited by Ssinfull on 11/30/2012 1:39 AM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
14205
11/29/2012 10:57 AMPosted by Khahan
Just take the partial run, re-que and get the guaranteed fresh run. That is the surest bet if you don't get lucky and get a fresh run your first time.


All this does is cause anyone who did not have the last boss killed will have to wait. This is the same issue that Bliz tried to fix with this queue change. I would rather just keep re-queueing and seeing the progression. Then I can at least farm mats, do dailies, run old content solo, etc.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
4490
As posted by Bashiok in the Gen forum thread about the same issue

Right, so with 5.1 the game no longer tells you how many bosses are left for the group you’re being matched with for Raid Finder (LFR).To explain why we made the change, let’s go back to the problem everyone was experiencing before. Let’s say a fresh LFR group is put together, they get two bosses down, and then wipe a few times on the third and lose 10 people who think they’re too cool for wiping. Now the group is down to 15, waiting for 10 new people, the queue eventually pops for those 10, and most of them see 2/6 and hit cancel. The raid still isn't full, the matchmaker has to go looking again for more people, and meanwhile as time ticks on people from the original run are getting more frustrated. Maybe a few of them leave, and then there’s even more spots to fill. Plenty of times everyone just gives up and the entire run falls apart, all those people are back in the queue, and they’ll be-damned if they join an in-progress run to fall apart again!These kinds of things happen all of the time, and in the vast majority of situations it’s simply because people don’t like the idea of joining an in-progress run, even if it would have succeeded.You may think we’re trying to be underhanded, but the reality is we’re trying to help people be more efficient with their play time. What most people don’t realize is that if they get and complete an in-progress run, the next time they queue they will preferentially be placed into a fresh instance. What everyone should be doing, to be the most efficient, is joining and sticking with their runs to completion. If they join an in-progress group they can catch up on those other couple bosses they missed immediately after, and if they have the time, they’d be wise to down the ones they've already killed again for extra Valor.The patch has only been out a couple days of course, but personally I think there are some people who don’t realize yet how an in-progress run, and that extra Valor, can directly translate to improved items through the new upgrade system. An in-progress run is very likely better bang for the buck to your character power due to item level upgrades than hitting cancel over and over to get a fresh run and then hoping for a boss drop.There are of course other issues that cause LFR groups to fall apart, like boss difficulty, and those are the kinds of things we’re looking at bigger solutions for. Losing a couple people doesn’t need to mean the whole run is doomed.


So this a a Blue poster/Blizz'z explanation for the Que change
Edited by Ssinfull on 11/29/2012 1:26 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
16605
11/29/2012 01:20 PMPosted by Cruciarius
Just take the partial run, re-que and get the guaranteed fresh run. That is the surest bet if you don't get lucky and get a fresh run your first time.


All this does is cause anyone who did not have the last boss killed will have to wait. This is the same issue that Bliz tried to fix with this queue change. I would rather just keep re-queueing and seeing the progression. Then I can at least farm mats, do dailies, run old content solo, etc.


If you actually have something to do with the downtime, then by all means reque all you want. Sorry for the assumption. Just around the boards there are so many people complaining about que's as if you HAVE to sit in the city with nothing to do and wait it out. Nice to see people actually still go out into the world and play the game.
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90 Tauren Warrior
9435
Having players do this can seriously impair the groups ability to complete the raid if they are constantly having to bring in new memebers .


Their solution doesn't actually help with that.

What do you think that person is going to do after they rejoin get a fresh run? drop after downing the boss(s) they need/want.

More likely they're just trying to fix an issue where groups are more likely to fall apart the further in they get due to people not joining.

The deserter debuff is just completely bull!@#$, however. There's no reason for it.
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90 Undead Warlock
14205
11/29/2012 02:07 PMPosted by Khahan


All this does is cause anyone who did not have the last boss killed will have to wait. This is the same issue that Bliz tried to fix with this queue change. I would rather just keep re-queueing and seeing the progression. Then I can at least farm mats, do dailies, run old content solo, etc.


If you actually have something to do with the downtime, then by all means reque all you want. Sorry for the assumption. Just around the boards there are so many people complaining about que's as if you HAVE to sit in the city with nothing to do and wait it out. Nice to see people actually still go out into the world and play the game.


I work, unlike some people who I know play WoW. I pay my own monthly fee. Not saying anyone here doesn't though. That said, my job is tiring. I would like to spend my time on WoW with only "needing" to do a few queues into LFR. When it pops, I'd like to see the progression. Yes, killing the last boss more than once does reward with "extra VP". Although I do use the VP, I would prefer only downing each boss once. Then I can spend my weekend or days off running scenarios for the 100 completed achievement (only work on this when I'm not VP capped) or other content, which also gives me VP.

I do understand why Blizzard has made the change. They want people to go into the queue and do what needs to be done. People still leave LFR when entering, when it's not on a boss they want. People already in the LFR still have to wait around. The change hasn't fixed anything. I've run all but 1 LFR and people leave as soon as they enter every time I queued. And no, I wasn't one who left. I stayed and downed the boss(es).

The only solution I can think of that could fix this, would be to let people queue for fresh or in-progress runs. I understand that may not be ideal either, but I think it's better than not seeing if the queue that you just had popped is in-progress or not.
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90 Worgen Druid
16550
A lot of people never understood that if they kill the last boss in a partially cleared run it will prioritize that person to get a fresh run.

So there were countless people complaining about 2/6 LFR and never killing the last boss .

This way people who want to do LFR will do the LFR that is available and free up other people and the entire system from the unfinished runs.

The Deserter debuff is a good way to prevent people from just hopping in and out until they find the boss they want.

So many of the complaints in this thread seem to center around the lack of understanding that even though LFR is for doing "raid content" without being in a raid group, it still requires 24 other people. And 24 other people are not going to magically appear and help you get what you want every single time. Especially when everyone has the same mindset that if they have to kill an extra boss it isn't worth it. Even if killing that extra boss will help out others and get you to your own goal faster.
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85 Human Mage
15795
The change was needed and is definitely an upgrade to the throughput ability of LFR runs.

No one likes sitting at a boss like Garalon with 2/6 healers in the group waiting for those who aren't cherry-picking their runs to get in with countless declines making for a nice 15 min afk time before pulling the boss. This just creates the situation where raids end up partial-clearing as people get fed up of waiting and leave. It's essentially like sitting in a queue again.

As a DPS/Tank, if your goal was to full clear and you did not have a healer queuing you, it was already faster to take your partially completed queue and queue again afterwards as it would ensure you get a fresh run the 2nd time around.

If you cherry-picked as a DPS/TANK, there is no possible way that you were getting faster queues for the boss you wanted than finishing your partial run. What do you do? Decline a 20 min queue and queue again? It's a silly concept.

As Tyr said, there was not much public knowledge that after completing the end boss in LFR you were getting prioritized for a full clear the next go-around. This information should be more public now.

I've also never understood why there was no deserter debuff on LFR before now as LFR healer queuing was being abused the same way LFD tank queuing was for years.

Since 5.1 hit I've seen LFR be much faster and this is due to raids not taking 15 mins to replace the 8-11 people who leave after the 2nd to last boss in any instance.
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90 Human Mage
11105
When they say "prioritize" does that mean "guaranteed?" If they mean guaranteed, they should say so and stick by it. Prioritize is waaaay too vague for me. Until I see it written that way (or until I see that no one I know NEVER gets put into a partial queue after already running a partial queue earlier that week, for the same raid), I won't completely believe it.

Still that's TWO long queues. (And yes, I believe it's still very long for DPS players).

While LIKE to do things when in queue, the nature of LFR makes it unpleasant to do so. Why? When I get in, I don't have time to eat, drink, eat buff foods (sometimes I put down a banquet JUST so I can have time to eat it, and make time to create assist macros for the tanks). They often pull while I'm on loading screen. So, I come in half dead, and in combat, with no buff foods (I've wasted a lot of buff foods trying to eat before-hand, only to have half of it go away due to long queue times). I also prefer a slightly different spec on this toon (both fire but with some differences in talents and glyphs, from what I prefer to use in soloing). So yeah, I do try to do stuff because otherwise my time is completely and utterly wasted. Now I have to do it twice?

I have to say this. In the past, if I did the last boss, and got a fresh run later, I'd stay to the end because I felt it would help the raid. Now that I feel as if I don't have a choice in the matter, I doubt I'll do that if I'm queuing alone, since I think they are deliberately wasting my time.

I'd much rather they gave incentives to stay - something like a goodie bag. Have that choice of a fresh vs. partial run and give a goodie bag for those who chose to do the partial. I don't think it should be valor (since there is such a low weekly cap and there's a chance that the person will get nothing) nor should it be just gold in there. I'm thinking useful items, such as Spirits of Harmony, Sky Shards, Golden Lotuses, Elder Charms, etc).

Also, I think that if you have never done that particular raid in LFR mode, you should be prioritized for a fresh run also. People seeing it for the first time should see it in order.
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