How about putting PvP first! PvE is easy!

90 Human Hunter
7855
What difference does make to put PvE first? Killing a NPC is not hard. DPS only has to worry about their damage. Tanking only has to worry about their threat. Healers only have to worry about healing. Its a dungeon or a raid that does the same thing over and over again. BTW next week it will still be the same thing!

So WTF? You continuously make the same PvP mistakes over again. You can not do the same thing every time and expect a different outcome!!!!! There is way more mechanics that are involved into PvP'ing. So why don't you get off that high horse about PvE.

Here is some food for thought. How about focusing on this for PvP. Survivability, maneuverability, and damage output!
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90 Orc Shaman
5480
I KNOW. PvE requires the Dev team to focus on a ONE-sided aspect, and that would be the players. I don't think bosses would complain if warlocks were to be too OP. This !@#$ is so backwards.
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90 Worgen Warlock
5255
Not that I enjoy PvE, but there is a lot more to raiding than what you list.

The superiority complex from PvPers to PvErs and vice versa is annoying. Both sides always calling the other braindead is redundant.

Why not just list some actual suggestions besides the vague:

12/04/2012 09:26 AMPosted by Lauracröft
Survivability, maneuverability, and damage output!


and leave PvE out of it...
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90 Dwarf Shaman
5740
12/04/2012 09:34 AMPosted by Calissto
but there is a lot more to raiding than what you list.

You mean like barely using your brain to do something you did last week at the same time DBM tells you to, lol. The Point is PvE is fair and balanced right now, incredibly more than PvP, so they need to focus on fixing PvP since Pve is already fine where its at. Don't get butthurt cause we actually have to think about things in PvP where you just have to do the same mindless robotic motions week after week in PvE /lol
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90 Tauren Druid
8030
They don't need to put PVP first. They just need to put pvp anywhere. It's so simple the changes that could be made. They could literally spend 20 minutes thinking and solve this entire season, but they simply refuse to use logic. We're not asking for big new bosses and stuff.
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90 Worgen Warlock
5255
but there is a lot more to raiding than what you list.

You mean like barely using your brain to do something you did last week at the same time DBM tells you to, lol. The Point is PvE is fair and balanced right now, incredibly more than PvP, so they need to focus on fixing PvP since Pve is already fine where its at. Don't get butthurt cause we actually have to think about things in PvP where you just have to do the same mindless robotic motions week after week in PvE /lol


Lmao wow. Look at my gear and progession (or lack of). I only PvP...I do 0 raids and have only done a handful of heroics since launch.

You missed my point entirely. PvP DOES have many broken aspects right now, but why start attacking PvE players? It just makes these posts look immature and reduces the chance that anyone will take them seriously to about 0.

Make REAL suggestions instead of just attacking the other side of players. PvE players attack PvP players too, it makes zero sense.

Are people incapable of coming up with suggestions with out calling the other side "Drones" or "Brain Dead"? Grow up.
Edited by Calissto on 12/4/2012 10:01 AM PST
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90 Undead Priest
11275
That's because around 1% of the wow population plays arena. Maybe at most 10% plays BGs/RatedBGs. That leaves 90% of the population that likes to PVE, that's why.
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90 Human Warrior
11020
This game was built from the ground up for PvE. The original design of the game didn't even include PvP it was only added later as an afterthought. Many devs have stated in the past that this is the core problem with WoW PvP and there are so many variables that really the only way to balance the game would be to redesign it completely which they have no intention of doing.

In fact the core purpose of PvP has never been to become a super balanced and competitive e-sport it's only with the advent of arenas that people became much more serious about the "skill" involved in PvP. There was a post awhile back where one developer said that he thought the inclusion of arenas as a whole was a mistake precisely because it made people think PvP was more of an e-sport and created balancing challenges. I wish I had more citations for you but I don't want to bother digging them up. Anyway just saying that I wouldn't take pvp balance in this game in the past, present, or future very seriously because that not really the intention of the game.

edit: Found one of the citations
http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/interviews/6773-Five-Years-of-Warcraft-Speaking-With-Blizzards-Rob-Pardo
Edited by Faust on 12/4/2012 10:17 AM PST
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90 Orc Warrior
11475
What makes pve hard and pvp hard are 2 different things in a lot of ways.

I was GM for a large guld for a couple years and we did moderate to semi-serious progression for some raids. From a single player stand point, pvp can be harder, but the talented player still has a roll and purpose in a group of 25 people in a raid. And beyond that, if you are pushing for progression, you aren't competing against the computer so much as other players on your server, or country, etc.

Getting 25 people on, organizing a schedule, setting up roles, finding people to be active, finding people that can farm, finding people that can teach other players, finding people to be officers, etc etc etc. All that plays in to being good at pvp. Sure the individual pve player may not be as skilled, but when you start comparing top pve players to top pvp players, I can assure you they both share in no shortage of talent.
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90 Human Hunter
7855
Well guess what PvP is here and it't not going away. All I said was how about putting PvP first. To get the balance closer than what it is. Why doe PvE have to be first? You are sitting their QQ'ing that's my spot and I'm not giving it up.

Sorry but the mechanics of PvE is way easier. PvE you can literally just stand there for the most part and use your mouse to click. BTW no one is attacking PvE player's. The argument is why don't you put PvP first?

@Faust that's a horrible argument. That mistake has made them millions! So much so they have added Arena Pass, Arena Tournaments. So if it was really a mistake then why did they build off of it?

The mechanics of PvE will not be broken if you put PvP first. Maybe just maybe it will help PvE. When they actually think about survivability and maneuverability.
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90 Human Hunter
7855
Not that I enjoy PvE, but there is a lot more to raiding than what you list.

The superiority complex from PvPers to PvErs and vice versa is annoying. Both sides always calling the other braindead is redundant.

Why not just list some actual suggestions besides the vague:

Survivability, maneuverability, and damage output!


and leave PvE out of it...


Those are just core fundamentals. There is a lot more to it. But everything else branches off those 3 things.
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90 Human Death Knight
5755
PvE is pretty easy TBH. It's mostly just a gear game and praying the other 9 people in your group will remember the mechanics this time around. That's why I prefer PvP, I'd much rather depend on 1-2 other players to know what they're doing than waste weeks on something because someone in my group doesn't know the fight or didn't max their ilvl or we lack a cook for our food buffs. I can see the appeal to PvE, I personally just find it incredibly boring and anti-fun.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11105
The problem with balancing the game around PvE is... well... who cares if a class is OP in PvE?

When a class is OP in PvE, it only helps your guild kill the dragon faster. Why ask blizzard to nerf them? Oh that is probably because you use recount and can't stand that you're not #1 on every boss fight.

The game is balanced around PvE because the majority of players focus on PvE over PvP. And the reason that PvE balancing screws up PvP is because Blizz tries to make every spec of every class equal in damage and utility to their counterparts (so that people don't complain about being underpowered or someone else being overpowered).

There is only one solution to this problem:

Save the dragons! Stop PvE!
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90 Human Warrior
11020
Well guess what PvP is here and it't not going away. All I said was how about putting PvP first. To get the balance closer than what it is. Why doe PvE have to be first? You are sitting their QQ'ing that's my spot and I'm not giving it up.

Sorry but the mechanics of PvE is way easier. PvE you can literally just stand there for the most part and use your mouse to click. BTW no one is attacking PvE player's. The argument is why don't you put PvP first?

@Faust that's a horrible argument. That mistake has made them millions! So much so they have added Arena Pass, Arena Tournaments. So if it was really a mistake then why did they build off of it?

The mechanics of PvE will not be broken if you put PvP first. Maybe just maybe it will help PvE. When they actually think about survivability and maneuverability.


I think that maybe you would understand better if you read the interview. What the VP of Blizzard basically said was that PvP in WoW is not able to be balanced unless you completely redesign the game. The core mechanics of this game design 8 years ago prevent it from being balanced because it was never designed to be a PvP game, it was only included after conception. What he was saying was it's not that arenas are a terrible idea, it's that they cause players to ask for very tight PvP balance which is not obtainable.
Edited by Faust on 12/4/2012 11:00 AM PST
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When will you guys understand, that Blizz doesn't care about your opinion, nor do they care about PvP, they put up with it because they introduced it. Most likely the second time around, Arenas wouldn't even of been implemented, like they said up above, only a few % of the subscribers do Arenas and PvP, the rest are questers, roleplayers and raiders. As much as you guys think PvE is easy, you guys aren't #1 in the world for getting boss kills, nor do you have Heroic achieves, you can't call something easy when you haven't even done it.
Edited by Redirection on 12/4/2012 11:09 AM PST
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90 Human Hunter
7855
@Redirection: I have done it. Also I'm using their own words. They said raiding and dungeons where to EASY in cata. http://us.battle.net/bwc/en/ Now tell me they don't have a #1 in the world. BTW this isn't my first toon. Wow what a concept, come on! You are acting like I said they should do away with PvE. All I said was put PvP first!

@Faust: How do you know if something is possible or impossible if you never try it? They have never put PvP first. So how do you know that will not fix it? PvE is easy compared to PvP. The fact is that you don't know what the other player is gonna do. That boss does the same thing he/she did last week, right?

Whats the worst thing that could happen if the put PvP first? LoL, Rift, and GW2 all focus more on PvP. PvP is here to stay folks. You can hate it all you want! PvE or PvP is not going anywhere.
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90 Orc Warrior
5280
people can say what they want about why blizzard doesnt try to balance pvp but the fact of the matter remains that it would be very easy to balance pvp, put restrictions on abilities to function differently in pvp environments. they have proven they can do this with csmash and tfb changes, and cc's. If they balanced them separately i guarantee you that subscriptions would pick up again and participation in pvp would start to climb
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90 Orc Hunter
10355
wont ever happen
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