Too much healing... are we healers now ?!

90 Goblin Death Knight
3195
Well... I just got killed in a 1v1(2) fight!
Funny... but that's not my point.

I know Death Strike heals a lot and that's still not my point.
The fact that it's getting nerf next patch is probably a good thing but still not my point.

My point is... every dps has a "self heal" now and to me that's just... well, that's annoying.
I'd live without my Death Strike... hell, if anything I'd use something else.

Going in a 10mins fight... bringing down a warrior to 30% life and not being able to kill it 'cos it heals every time I hit it is just meh... Yeah, I was pretty much still @ 100% the whole time 'til his friend came down and help the poor thing finish me.
(Funny how it was a frost DK but ... that's not my point.)

Seriously... we're dps/tanks not healers.
Healers got one job and its to heal us... why are we suddenly taking over them ?

That'd be nice to have less self heals and more dps going on.
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90 Troll Druid
19150
Yeah this game took a turn for the very worst in Cata. I have played since vanilla, and the homogenization of classes is a joke. Forcing me to quit the game a few times and thinking of killing it completely very soon.

In vanilla BC and even in Wrath, each class had its own unique abilities. That's what made the game fun. Both in PvP and in PvE. Now every none-healing, non-hybrid class can heal. (in the case of ele's and boomkins usually out healed. how does that work blizz?)

I rolled a druid in mid BC FOR THAT ABILITY. The ability to do be a hybrid class, to heal and dps. (and tank when speced for it) now every class is a hybrid.

I could go on and on with things wrong with this game, and blizzards frantic struggle to implement Pokemon and farmvile into the game to keep the masses its losing cause they lost their way, such a long time ago.

Sad really. The game use to be fun and challenging. Now its a joke. PvE is a little better then the Crap they fed us in Cata. But PvP is no challenge anymore like it use to be in Vanilla and BC. You a face roll class? If yes then win. If no then lose.
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1 Undead Mage
0
Yeah this game took a turn for the very worst in Cata. I have played since vanilla, and the homogenization of classes is a joke. Forcing me to quit the game a few times and thinking of killing it completely very soon.

In vanilla BC and even in Wrath, each class had its own unique abilities. That's what made the game fun. Both in PvP and in PvE. Now every none-healing, non-hybrid class can heal. (in the case of ele's and boomkins usually out healed. how does that work blizz?)

I rolled a druid in mid BC FOR THAT ABILITY. The ability to do be a hybrid class, to heal and dps. (and tank when speced for it) now every class is a hybrid.

I could go on and on with things wrong with this game, and blizzards frantic struggle to implement Pokemon and farmvile into the game to keep the masses its losing cause they lost their way, such a long time ago.

Sad really. The game use to be fun and challenging. Now its a joke. PvE is a little better then the Crap they fed us in Cata. But PvP is no challenge anymore like it use to be in Vanilla and BC. You a face roll class? If yes then win. If no then lose.


Perhaps you complain about how BC had better PVP and less "face-roll" because you were a druid then, the pinnacle of the "face-roll" paradigm. Blind to that fact you were never able to adapt afterwards.
Edited by Ttdance on 11/25/2012 8:50 PM PST
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90 Goblin Death Knight
3195
Well that escalated rather quickly...
Point is... we're dps not healers.

As a blood death knight, I sure feel like I'm doing a much better job at healing myself than the healer whose only job is to keep me up.
(Blood DK is a tank spec, yes but still... Death Strike heals for a lot and I don't think any other tank has got that kind of rather OP self-heal in its toolkit.)

Same thing could've been said about Dark Succor pre-nerf... and it sure goes along with "Second Wind" or whatever its called.

Sure... this can all be bypassed, negated, absorbed or whatever but the point is, we're dps not healers.

It shouldn't be a "Who's got the better heals" contest but a "Who's playing its class the best" which ultimately could be interpreted as being the same thing.... but it's not.

See it the way I see it... a real duel in between two gentlemen!
2 guns, 2 adversaries... 1 winner, 1 loser & no second chance, if you screw up... you're done for and that's what PvP should be about.

That's how I see things but it sure ain't how it is.

PvP is a joke... thank you Lead Designer & Devs.
Edited by Ðahmer on 11/25/2012 9:01 PM PST
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100 Human Warrior
14430
Second Wind only triggers below 35%, and is a HoT. The only time this ability heals for a lot is when the warrior is up against bad DPS. It is in no way comparable to Blood's capability to self heal.

Blood Self heals for a lot because it lacks the same levels of mitigation other tanks have. Where you get the ability to heal yourself for a lot, Warriors are shield blocking/shield barriering, to reduce/absorb the damage. In the end it evens out to much the same thing. Changing blood from having a lot of self heals to other forms of mitigation could be done, but it would be moving more towards homogeneity which I doubt anyone really wants.
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90 Troll Druid
19150
Perhaps you complain about how BC had better PVP and less "face-roll" because you were a druid then, the pinnacle of the "face-roll" paradigm. Blind to that fact you were never able to adapt afterwards.


Coming from a troll. And yes restos were very strong in BC, but not sure how that is apart of the topic. I am a hybrid I should heal. I was in resto and they were the strongest healers then so yes I was strong.

That has nothing to do with how a rogue, war, mage, lock etc, should have the ability to self heal. Your point is lost on me.

Second Wind only triggers below 35%, and is a HoT. The only time this ability heals for a lot is when the warrior is up against bad DPS. It is in no way comparable to Blood's capability to self heal.

Blood Self heals for a lot because it lacks the same levels of mitigation other tanks have. Where you get the ability to heal yourself for a lot, Warriors are shield blocking/shield barriering, to reduce/absorb the damage. In the end it evens out to much the same thing. Changing blood from having a lot of self heals to other forms of mitigation could be done, but it would be moving more towards homogeneity which I doubt anyone really wants.


I agree Bloods heals are more then Second Wind. DKs have death strike, purgatory, ghoul sack, plus all the anti magic. Making them annoying as a caster. Wars are still worse just cause the "OH !@#$ ONE SHOT MACRO DEATH TIME." they have. also 5 stacks of ToB for +500% damage. I die in 3 GCDs. No amount of heals would prevent that
Edited by Draakmis on 11/25/2012 9:20 PM PST
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90 Goblin Death Knight
3195
11/25/2012 09:08 PMPosted by Secondwind
but it would be moving more towards homogeneity which I doubt anyone really wants.


Why does everybody has "homogeneity" in mind... wait, I think what I should ask is Why do the devs only think about homogeneity themselves.
So far all they brought is self-heals for everybody and they gave every class something from another one.

Hell... I'm a rogue I don't even know about it.
Jeez I'm also a priest and I just didn't have a clue about it...

Know where I'm going ?!

They stopped making improvements, stopped bringing new things and new mechanics in.
All they do is take a cold dish and put it in the microwave and serve it back to us.

Lack of imagination... that's what it is.

-

For the rest of what you said...
I guess my "blood dps" is bad... yeah, sure... it probably is.
But I also think you missed my point.

Just to make sure it's crystal clear... we're dps not healers.
We shouldn't be given self heals at all, we've got no use for that.
Hell... they gave us Resil to last a bit longer... 'cos apparently "armor" is not enough to sustain another players damage.

But seems like Resil wasn't enough either 'cos we were all given self heals.

So again... just to hammer it down once and for all, we're dps not healers.

thanks.
11/25/2012 09:15 PMPosted by Draakmis
Perhaps you complain about how BC had better PVP and less "face-roll" because you were a druid then, the pinnacle of the "face-roll" paradigm. Blind to that fact you were never able to adapt afterwards.


Coming from a troll. And yes restos were very strong in BC, but not sure how that is apart of the topic. I am a hybrid I should heal. I was in resto and they were the strongest healers then so yes I was strong.

That has nothing to do with how a rogue, war, mage, lock etc, should have the ability to self heal. Your point is lost on me.

Well ... you probably wouldn't like my thoughts on hybrids damage.
Edited by Ðahmer on 11/25/2012 9:20 PM PST
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100 Human Warrior
14430
So your complaint is that everyone is the same. Your solution is to take away two very different abilities because they fall into a category you don't like, and make the tank specs more similar.

Do you see the disconnect in what you are saying?
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90 Troll Druid
19150
All they do is take a cold dish and put it in the microwave and serve it back to us.

Sad but true.

Well ... you probably wouldn't like my thoughts on hybrids damage.

Spriest - decent damage, strong in CC and control, plus self shields and heals (Which they are the reason hybrids are looking to get a healing nerf come 5.1)

Ele shamans - worst in pvp at the moment. very proc dependent, like Boomkings, just with out the strong dots

Enh shamans - they put out some decent damage. light on the self heals

Ret Paladins - Strong burst damage, multiple stuns/loss of control effects, and strong self heals

Ferals - When Fire mages Wars, and Locks get the nerf Ferals will be top once again just like in early cata high burst and sustained damage and nice self heals.

Boomkins - decent burst. you let a skilled boomkin do his thing they will top charts at the end. very nice sustained damage. very low survivability.

**edit**
That being said. When I am at the top of the charts its always a Dk that's trailing me or a lock.
Edited by Draakmis on 11/25/2012 9:33 PM PST
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90 Goblin Death Knight
3195
So your complaint is that everyone is the same. Your solution is to take away two very different abilities because they fall into a category you don't like, and make the tank specs more similar.

Do you see the disconnect in what you are saying?

Nop... what I'm saying is that Blizzard gave everybody everything.

I'm seeing none. (disconnects)
And that's not quite my solution either... to be honest, nobody would like my solutions.

I'd like to propose ideas... solutions and even perhaps new concepts but I won't.
If they can't figure it out on their own... I sure won't throw MY ideas in just to be laughed at.
Anyway... Blizzard listens to no one but their Devs so why should I even bother.
Edited by Ðahmer on 11/25/2012 9:36 PM PST
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90 Goblin Death Knight
3195
11/25/2012 09:38 PMPosted by Syrelan
rogue self heal wants to say hi.

Here's what I posted on a different thread of this section

I'd say... let's just get rid of Recup... I know that's not what rogues want but seriously, less self-heals for everybody not just rogues.

Let's be dps for once.
healing is a part of being a DPS just like DPSing is part of being a healer. Rogues didnt have any healing until recently, so I'm not sure what you are trying to say.


I'm saying dps should dps and that healers should heal.
And I don't think there's any "heal" in dps... at least, last time I checked it was still "Damage Per Second" and not "Damage & Healing Per Second".

Look at me bro... I'm a DK, I'm willing to give away my stuff to make this happen.
I'm also willing to be hated by this community to bring up some sense into y'all.

PvP shouldn't be about "Who can out heal to other" ... it should be about "Who's the smartest of the two" and since you're a rogue... I'm sure you understand where I'm going and more importantly ... what I mean.
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90 Orc Death Knight
0
Look at me bro... I'm a DK, I'm willing to give away my stuff to make this happen.
I'm also willing to be hated by this community to bring up some sense into y'all.


I'm sorry bud, but you are not a DK. After looking at your char sheet & achievements all I is a person that has only been playing there DK for 2 months. Most of your gear upgrade achievements happened in the beginning of Oct of this yr. All of your gear achievements for the gear lvls of 187, 333 & 450 all of them.. You started playing your Dk around Sept from what I can tell.

Plse don't lump yourself into trying to represent what the DK community wishes.
Maybe a thinly veiled nerf self healing thread?

/shrug

Mystically Superior
Equip a superior item in every slot with a minimum item level of 450.--10/10/2012


Superior
Equip a superior item in every slot with a minimum item level of 187.---10/08/2012

Cataclysmically Superior
Equip a superior item in every slot with a minimum item level of 333--10/08/2012



That's some serious powerlvling..
Edited by Nobul on 11/25/2012 10:25 PM PST
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90 Goblin Death Knight
3195
Look at me bro... I'm a DK, I'm willing to give away my stuff to make this happen.
I'm also willing to be hated by this community to bring up some sense into y'all.


I'm sorry bud, but you are not a DK. After looking at your char sheet & achievements all I is a person that has only been playing there DK for 2 months. Most of your gear upgrade achievements happened in the beginning of Oct of this yr. All of your gear achievements for the gear lvls of 187, 333 & 450 all of them.. You started playing your Dk around Sept from what I can tell.

Plse don't lump yourself into trying to represent what the DK community wishes.
Maybe a thinly veiled nerf self healing thread?

/shrug


Sure... 2months but that doesn't mean anything.
You're not taking into consideration that I've been playing since end BC/early wrath.
That I've deleted all my previous toons and that I've made several DKs which I also deleted.

"What you see is what you get" doesn't apply here.

So yeah... I got 2 months of MoP, like everybody else!
I played a Frost DK during Cata and a Blood DK in mid Cata.
I happened to play a blood & unholy dk from early wrath 'til the end (I started as blood, sucked then quit came back and started new as unholy.)

I can tell I've made something like 10 DKs since I started playing WoW.
All of which I've deleted (but this one) I've learned to play my class the way it was meant to be played... I've coped with the nerfs which came down upon us and adapted like everybody does when !@#$ hits the fan.

Open up your eyes... and please come back with a solid argument.

EDIT: To answer your own edit... what's your point ?!
I'm not a real DK 'cos I didn't keep my first one and played it throughout 3 expansions ?! is that what you're trying to say ?
Hell... what does it take to be a real Death Knight nowadays ?! Do I need to do some sort of evil ritual and kneel down to the Lich King ?! (Which btw is dead... I happened to kill him during Wrath, just so you know.)
Oh and about the achievements... lemme tell you something, not everybody is an achievement !@#$%, not everybody cares about titles and stuff... maybe YOU do but I'm sure most of us don't.

So tell me... help me laugh my ^-* off once and for all, what does it take to be a real DK ?

EDIT2: One does not simply become a real Death Knight (I guess lol -_-)

EDIT3:
Plse don't lump yourself into trying to represent what the DK community wishes.

When did I ever give you the impression that I was here representing you or any other DKs ?!
Edited by Ðahmer on 11/25/2012 10:37 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11915
Ret Paladins - Strong burst damage, multiple stuns/loss of control effects, and strong self heals

One stun and one (two if you spec for a cast-time CC with no way to be instant) other CC isn't "multiple". The self-healing is also weak when our other defenses (or lack thereof) are taken into account. It's the offhealing with Selfless Healer that's strong.
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42 Draenei Mage
550

As a blood death knight


So wait. You picked a spec that, since its inception, has been focused around the ability to heal itself, and a class that's always been able to heal itself well and you're complaining about having decent self healing?
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100 Troll Mage
16155
I agree that dps should dps and healers should heal, which is exactly what is happening now. Healers aren't being kicked out of raid groups and dps aren't being kicked out of raid groups because dps/healers invalidate each others roles.

The inherent meaning in what I am saying is that unless people are not bringing healers/dps because the opposite role can do enough of the opposites roles intent, then its a nonissue.
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100 Worgen Warrior
5160
so, we should take away damaging abilities from tanks and damaging spells from healers because our role should dictate the spectrum of our abilities rather than the class.

seems legit.

im not saying that healers and hybrid healers are healing too much or too little, but the suggestion of removing staple parts of classes is absurd.

healing for death knights and pallies has become part of their active mitigation toolkit; just because you have a self heal every once and while doesn't invalidate what a healer does. you can't heal others, and obviously not all classes have the same level of healing ability.

if you have any "original" ideas that the devs seem unable to see without your boundless wisdom please feel free to share them.
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90 Undead Warlock
0
Warlocks have self heals that outpace life tap? Whoa. You might be wrong.
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