A gladiator's view on the Dk current state

90 Blood Elf Priest
6415
bump with ideas man!

maybe lower cd on remorseless winter to 30s.

Really though, we are one of the classes that needs an overhaul of our talents and our abilities so that they are competitive. No reason a mage should have 10x the survivability of a dk while keeping their control and their damage.


Last I checked DK's are competitive somewhat, they're just overshadowed massively by the sheer power of other classes, most notably Warriors, who they are typically in competition for spots with.

Some of these "suggestions" are ridiculous, it's like you want to return DK to the dark age of S5. 30s CD on Remorseless winter? Are you for real? DK is not supposed to be a control unit, it's supposed to be a constant pressure one, an anti-caster at its finest. There's a reason they tend to suck against melee, it's because DKs have barely any counters to melee damage, but plenty to spell effects. Alright, want IBF on a 2 minute cooldown? Now you get AMS on a 1 minute cooldown as well. Enjoy.
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90 Human Death Knight
6085
whats everyone's take on lichbourne state atm?
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90 Orc Death Knight
10705
I love many of the posts in this thread. To be honest, before the xpac, I thought these abilities would pan out(in the beta), but the changes to the other classes just simply make the DK class look like the forgotten orphan child. We lack serious CC(instant, or short cast, short cooldown), we lack a self peel(IBF gutted since way back).

Its like the dev team, said DK's have too much(bottom of the barrel last season of cata but I digress), so lets make them choose from what they already had. This ultimately just exasperated our survival issues. Instead of having fear removal, chill bains and ghoul sac, now you get to choose, how exciting! No it just made everything worse. To be honest, its like they knew that DK's would get the 5.2 patch or something and just said go with this really weak first pass of talents. Even then they gutted the PVE side of the only talents(level 90).

At first I thought, this would be fine as our damage is fairly good, but in a sense, it just makes us feel even more dated. Like here is a weaker slower version of hungering cold, cause we couldn't think of anything else. Add in the insult of paladins and locks getting this instant AOE CC, just kind pours salt on the wound. I would love to play this DK in PVP again, but my Paladin healer is 1000 times more fun, and I actually feel like I am contributing to a battle.

In short, DK's feel Dead and not like the former Lich King servants they should. Maybe this was a ploy to get some DK's to play Monks? I don't know, do something Blizzard, help the DK class.

Raennie
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90 Human Death Knight
9010
bump with ideas man!

maybe lower cd on remorseless winter to 30s.

Really though, we are one of the classes that needs an overhaul of our talents and our abilities so that they are competitive. No reason a mage should have 10x the survivability of a dk while keeping their control and their damage.


Last I checked DK's are competitive somewhat, they're just overshadowed massively by the sheer power of other classes, most notably Warriors, who they are typically in competition for spots with.

Some of these "suggestions" are ridiculous, it's like you want to return DK to the dark age of S5. 30s CD on Remorseless winter? Are you for real? DK is not supposed to be a control unit, it's supposed to be a constant pressure one, an anti-caster at its finest. There's a reason they tend to suck against melee, it's because DKs have barely any counters to melee damage, but plenty to spell effects. Alright, want IBF on a 2 minute cooldown? Now you get AMS on a 1 minute cooldown as well. Enjoy.


It's cute you think that remorseless winter is that good.

Regardless I don't really care about DK cc being buffed other than fixing the obvious problems with strangulate.

I personally just feel like DKs should either have deaths advance baseline or chillblains/DA for their respective specs.

Secondly would just be having bone shield baseline, it gets suggested a lot and I think it would do exactly what DKs need in giving a reasonable survival boost and a slight move speed boost that is available regularly.

The other idea given by Shendelzare of giving AMS a physical reduction similar to cloak glyph is another great idea that would fit well if bone shield isn't going to happen.

I feel buffing IBF would be a last resort buff if these two above options aren't viable but honestly the way DKs feel right now a change up in how we operate would be welcome.

The other issues such as soul reaper, I highly doubt they would consider changing it so *shrug*

Necrotic strike being back on an unholy rune would be definitely welcomed and I think being able to switch between burst and build up pressure would be an amazing thing for DKs to have after it being totally build up in Cata and totally burst in MOP

In terms of the class I would welcome a change to the way DKs play in general but for now as I said earlier we aren't a CC class so I don't care if they buff it, a decent mobility buff to return the ability to kite, which was a DK staple and to me felt the real separator between DKs and other melees , and a slight survivability buff which is mostly neccessary due to the ease of being locked down and dying in a stun which a mobility buff wouldn't assist with. These are the two things I feel we currently need addressed and anything further would probably make us OP, which would result in us getting a nerf down the track and probably ending up worse off for an entire expansion which has happened twice now?
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90 Human Paladin
5640
bump with ideas man!

maybe lower cd on remorseless winter to 30s.

Really though, we are one of the classes that needs an overhaul of our talents and our abilities so that they are competitive. No reason a mage should have 10x the survivability of a dk while keeping their control and their damage.


Last I checked DK's are competitive somewhat, they're just overshadowed massively by the sheer power of other classes, most notably Warriors, who they are typically in competition for spots with.

Some of these "suggestions" are ridiculous, it's like you want to return DK to the dark age of S5. 30s CD on Remorseless winter? Are you for real? DK is not supposed to be a control unit, it's supposed to be a constant pressure one, an anti-caster at its finest. There's a reason they tend to suck against melee, it's because DKs have barely any counters to melee damage, but plenty to spell effects. Alright, want IBF on a 2 minute cooldown? Now you get AMS on a 1 minute cooldown as well. Enjoy.


DKs used to be anti-caster. Not anymore. The second ams is over (only lasts 5 seconds), a mage/demo/spriest will destroy you in 2 globals if not less. One 5 second cooldown against casters that can put out constant pressure and insane burst on damage isn't what I'd call anti-caster. I'd call a 25 second spell reflect, a shield wall, blanket silences, and insane mobility "anti-caster."
Edited by Harcken on 11/25/2012 10:52 PM PST
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100 Human Death Knight
12615
Warrior do much better against wizards that Dk's do right now. Overall, Dks haven't been good against wizards since Wotlk
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100 Tauren Death Knight
10440
bump with ideas man!

maybe lower cd on remorseless winter to 30s.

Really though, we are one of the classes that needs an overhaul of our talents and our abilities so that they are competitive. No reason a mage should have 10x the survivability of a dk while keeping their control and their damage.


Last I checked DK's are competitive somewhat, they're just overshadowed massively by the sheer power of other classes, most notably Warriors, who they are typically in competition for spots with.

Some of these "suggestions" are ridiculous, it's like you want to return DK to the dark age of S5. 30s CD on Remorseless winter? Are you for real? DK is not supposed to be a control unit, it's supposed to be a constant pressure one, an anti-caster at its finest. There's a reason they tend to suck against melee, it's because DKs have barely any counters to melee damage, but plenty to spell effects. Alright, want IBF on a 2 minute cooldown? Now you get AMS on a 1 minute cooldown as well. Enjoy.


Remorseless winter is countered by a lot of things, freedom, avatar, dispell, ccing the dk and moving away, etc. Against competent players its hard to get off. Maybe if they lowered the stun duraton to 4-5 seconds a 30 second cd would be fine, but take a look at some of the abilities other classes have in mists, namely frost mages and warriors before you call it ridiculous.

What are our spell effects that make us great at being anti caster? strangulate on a 2min cd, dark simulacrum, and ams? As far as game balance is concerned warriors are better at being anti caster than we are. Death knights have lost their direction and need some love.

Icebound fortitude at 50% would be a great help in arenas, we dont really have anything to counter huge burst cooldowns like every other class has and thats largely the reason why we are so squishy.

But I dont think theyll change anything until after 5.1 has been out for awhile.
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100 Orc Death Knight
13170
Some interesting idea's here.

Honestly I think the biggest problem being that there is no reason to have a DK when you could have a warrior or feral druid.

I like the AMS idea, but it might be a little over the top. Maybe if they were to increase the CD of AMS but add that 40% reduction it would be a good change.

The reality of the state of DK's right now is that all we are is damage. To peel we do damage, to CC we do damage (and strang ofc but it's a bit of a lackluster being on a 2m CD), and with the state of the game right now it just doesn't cut it.

With the way warriors and ferals are currently they simply just bring more utility to the board and with the way CC is currently it makes our class essentially useless.

Hopefully they'll bring SOMETHING to the table in terms of catching us up to the other classes or toning those other classes down to the current state of what we are.
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90 Tauren Druid
10845
TO much to read in this post, bye
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90 Human Death Knight
0
[quote="71989636550"]Dks are completely fine with best sustained dmg in the game... lots of utility and ways to avoid cc like ibf, ams, lichborne.... oh and 2nd trinket... its mages and locks who are op... l2p the game... btw what a nice wall of text that I wont choose to read...

oh and Hem, yea cuz something that can hit twice as hard as a war w/o cds should have something like die by sword, at least wars dont have aoe slows and grips, and they cant kill you from acorss the arena....

Does piercing howl not ring a bell? obvious baddy is bad.
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100 Human Death Knight
12615
Zalec, without the "Z". Thats my name :o
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90 Human Death Knight
12445
@unholy : Not a huge fan of lichborne, but I use it since it's a free trinket from fear/self heals. I swap it out for AMZ depending on the comp. As for purgatory, I feel like it needs to be tweaked a bit to really be a viable option. Sure i'll survive a few seconds longer, but any smart opposition with good CC (pretty much everyone but DKs) will just lockdown the healer to make sure they can't heal through the purgatory, or make sure to silence or CC the DK to prevent a death pact from removing the debuff.

IMO just give us back some of our survival talents we lost over the expansions as baseline talents. Such as:

blade barrier (http://www.wowwiki.com/Blade_Barrier)
suppression (http://www.wowpedia.org/Magic_Suppression). **For anyone that didnt know, it used to give passive magic dmg reduction by 2/4/6% per rank.

will of the necropolis: (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=81164/will-of-the-necropolis)

Doing this, making bone shield baseline, and tweaking IBF a bit would put us in a rather good position survivability wise. As for mobility, I think this can be fixed through our 4P bonus by giving us 2 charges of death grip as opposed to just simply giving us a 3 sec window to use it.
Edited by Ended on 11/26/2012 12:53 AM PST
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55 Goblin Death Knight
90
Dks are completely fine with best sustained dmg in the game... lots of utility and ways to avoid cc like ibf, ams, lichborne.... oh and 2nd trinket... its mages and locks who are op... l2p the game... btw what a nice wall of text that I wont choose to read...

oh and Hem, yea cuz something that can hit twice as hard as a war w/o cds should have something like die by sword, at least wars dont have aoe slows and grips, and they cant kill you from acorss the arena....

with deaths advance you can kite nearlly every melee while hitting it from distance, and then oh sac, full hp, bye bye, oh lichborn, full hp bar again... I think dks went from being extremely faceroll to just faceroll this season and people are not liking it...

op mage is easier to deal with than op dk... i rather face mages, than dks, that take no dmg, hit you from distance, heal to full every time theyre low... and are unstoppable... NO TY s5/s9 please dont come back...

Oh look a warrior main nobody is asking for S5 just stop


pretty much lol
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90 Human Death Knight
0
11/26/2012 12:29 AMPosted by Shendelzare
Zalec, without the "Z". Thats my name :o


lol my real names zach, but when I was thinking of a new name for my dk I just thought zalec sounded cool :P

Btw I agree with the ideas you posted just to bad blizz probably won't even read this forum...
Edited by Zalec on 11/26/2012 2:40 AM PST
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100 Undead Death Knight
7975
OP has got it right, DK isn't even fun to play at the moment, its full of disappointing matches, and frustration. I don't need to mention the specifics, because the original post seems to cover it all.
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1 Human Warrior
0
whoever said dks were not good against caster since wrath. OMFG LMAO LOL, because they were so bad in cata right? Couldnt move, cast, or get away vs dks last season alone... so many l2p issues here...... dks are fine, you're all bad, end of story! Learn how to be good. Too bad you cant counter every caster 100% like you did last season, you're actually on par with avg classes now. Hurts when you realize you're actually garbage doesnt it?
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90 Orc Death Knight
8115
Level 1 alt on a warrior saying DK's are fine. How unique and objective.
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55 Goblin Death Knight
90
11/25/2012 10:00 PMPosted by Unholydîver
whats everyone's take on lichbourne state atm?


dont like it
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55 Goblin Death Knight
90
11/26/2012 04:37 AMPosted by Jiminyz
OP has got it right, DK isn't even fun to play at the moment, its full of disappointing matches, and frustration. I don't need to mention the specifics, because the original post seems to cover it all.


it really is annoying thats why im lv'ing a feral and mages now cause blizz wont make much changes
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Mages do 300k Frost Bomb? Nerf Dks.Warriors do crazy amount of burst? Nerf Dks.Hunters get to use AoTD in Arenas while we don't? Nerf Dks.Warlocks use chaos waves and ignore AMS? Nerf Dks.Monks get to have a massive mobility compare to us? Nerf Dks.(Yes, i know. Monks aren't really good at pvp)Rogues get to stunlock? Nerf Dks.Paladins get to bubble and get our HC? Nerf Dks.Druids get to shapeshift and have a blink + vanish? Nerf Dks.Shamans get to have 30 yd auto attack? Nerf Dks.(I feel sorry for the totem nerfs btw :( )Priests get to AoE Fear Spam and use vanish? Nerf Dks.(not saying OP but with GC logic, we still getting nerfed)


Dk's get a ranged silence (stun if glyphed) and monks don't? Nerf Dk's
Mages have a pet and monks don't? Nerf Mages
Warlocks can turn into a demon and monks can't? Nerf Warlocks
You have utility that I don't? NERF EVERYTHING THAT ISN'T MONK

This was fun, your turn again.
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