Nightelves and warlocks.. Friendly?

100 Night Elf Rogue
15595
Regardless, I think people have the mistake of treating lore as something amazingly stagnant that ignores all logical character progression.

Obviously, your average night elf is smart enough to be able to tell which fel magic is beneficial and which isn't. They wouldn't go "blargh i must keel yu for graet elune" if they saw someone on their own side with a demon.
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100 Human Death Knight
10945
Regardless, I think people have the mistake of treating lore as something amazingly stagnant that ignores all logical character progression.

Obviously, your average night elf is smart enough to be able to tell which fel magic is beneficial and which isn't. They wouldn't go "blargh i must keel yu for graet elune" if they saw someone on their own side with a demon.


The problem is, if we don't have blizzard characters (or even quest givers, or whatever) showing this progression, we can't take from granted.

The Night Elf society was somewhat stagnant in the last thousands of years. Sure, a lot of things changed in the last 10 years or so for them, but just because of that, we can't automatically assume that they are now acceptive toward everything that's happening right now.

For races like night elves all kinds of fel magic are harmful. They not only corrupt the very soul of the user, making them mere pawns of the demons (and not the other way around), but they also attract more demons. They felt the power of the Burning Legion twice, and both times Azeroth was inches from being annhilated.

Sure, there are off shots, and not all members of a race have a unified opinion, I see no major problems with "the end justifies the means" kind of elves. It happens. But if we were to take a look as the night elf race as a whole, the vast majority hates fel magic with passion
Edited by Kalad on 12/1/2012 3:55 PM PST
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95 Night Elf Rogue
2585
Pretty much all non warlocks dislike or have severe prejudice against warlocks. Lorewise, we know that warlocks hide their identity, otherwise they would be hunted down.

Night elves? Those guys hate any and all kind of fel magic.


This is baffling. We've been part of the Alliance for...how long now? Ten years? More?

Surely, the Night Elves have evolved, as a culture and characters, to where they can look at a human warlock wearing Alliance colors and a dude in dark clothes cackling over the cauldron and tell the difference.


Not really, Enekie. Ten years can't wipe out Ten thousand years worth of historically engrained prejudice. Remember that it was due to Queen Azshara trying to summon the Demon Sargeras up through the Well of Eternity that their whole world was shattered and thus created the maelstrom. Then another demon, Archimonde, necessitated the destruction (or believed destructrion) of Nordrassil.
Demon is demon, and those that consort with them are not tolerated. Or there'd have to be one heck of an excuse to tolerate them.
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Pretty much all non warlocks dislike or have severe prejudice against warlocks. Lorewise, we know that warlocks hide their identity, otherwise they would be hunted down.

Night elves? Those guys hate any and all kind of fel magic.


This is baffling. We've been part of the Alliance for...how long now? Ten years? More?

Surely, the Night Elves have evolved, as a culture and characters, to where they can look at a human warlock wearing Alliance colors and a dude in dark clothes cackling over the cauldron and tell the difference.

I'd hate to draw parallels to real-life prejudices or superstitions, but I think it's safe to say that certain beliefs -- ignorant or not -- can last a long time. I'd argue that they're likely to last even longer with a long-lived race, given that older generations of people just stick around, clinging to beliefs that may have been prevalent centuries or millennia ago.

Now, I agree that characters are individuals, and I can see it justified that a Night Elf would be okay with warlocks, or even defensive of them. There can be any number of reasons for it. On the whole, though, it's the cultural norm for warlocks to be reviled and distrusted. The draenei and Night Elves probably top the list for people who most hate demons and warlocks. So any claims that demons would be welcome in Darnassus are either outright lies (on an IC level) or a little bit of a blindspot for this bit of lore (on an OOC level).
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100 Night Elf Rogue
15595
See, I can see them distrusting fel magic as a whole. I can even see them distrusting warlocks to use it wisely. What I can't see them doing is painting an entire class of people with the same brush when those people have at least contributed to the war effort on their behalf.
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100 Human Death Knight
10945
12/01/2012 04:04 PMPosted by Enekie
See, I can see them distrusting fel magic as a whole. I can even see them distrusting warlocks to use it wisely. What I can't see them doing is painting an entire class of people with the same brush when those people have at least contributed to the war effort on their behalf.


Because they are aware that even the most self-controlled and wise person can be slowly corrupted. They have seen how promises of power corrupts everyone (the highborne, and even Azshara, who was one of the mightest, if not THE strongest night elf alive).

What would stop a warlock, which deals with fel and demons directly, from being corrupted and blasting their backs with a shadow bolt, even after they stood and fought together?
Edited by Kalad on 12/1/2012 4:13 PM PST
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100 Night Elf Rogue
15595
Yeah, like I said, I get that.

But I don't buy that a warlock wouldn't be welcome in Darnassus. Not when warlocks are helping out in the war against Garrosh.

Then again, since Garrosh is pretty pro-demon, maybe that would make sense?

Gosh, this got complicated.
Edited by Enekie on 12/1/2012 4:16 PM PST
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100 Human Death Knight
10945
Yeah, like I said, I get that.

But I don't buy that a warlock wouldn't be welcome in Darnassus. Not when warlocks are helping out in the war against Garrosh.


A warlock that stays quiet, and don't reveal himself? Neither do I.

But a warlock with his demon out, invoking fel magic? Nope.

Also, remember that for the elves, the true battle isn't against the horde, but against the burning legion. They know that while the orcs can destroy their homeland, it's the burning legion who's capable of consuming entire worlds and enslaving creatures to their service.
Edited by Kalad on 12/1/2012 4:17 PM PST
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100 Night Elf Druid
13580
I don't think they'd be welcomed in the true sense of the word, but they would at least be tolerated as long as they didn't stroll down the street with a demon and refrained from any overt use of fel magic.

Just, um, my two copper. :D
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100 Night Elf Rogue
15595
I think all battles are equally "true." The Night Elves aren't going to sit back and treat an effort to exterminate them as a "kind of" war.
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100 Human Death Knight
10945
12/01/2012 04:21 PMPosted by Enekie
I think all battles are equally "true." The Night Elves aren't going to sit back and treat an effort to exterminate them as a "kind of" war.


Velen disagrees.

Just because the horde isn't the biggest danger, it doesn't mean it isn't the most immediate one.
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91 Gnome Warlock
0
My one small comment is that not all Night Elves view magic [arcane/fel] as bad. There was once a quest chain in Desolace about a night elf man who sold out his sister and their trade caravan to become a warlock. It was an interesting quest and it was started by a night elf who wanted revenge for the betrayel. You go on to find a night elf woman in Thunder Axe Fortress who reveals that her brother was the one who turned on them.

This quest chain was always one of my favorites because it showed the lengths some people would go to follow their obsession or passion. Revenge from the initial quest giver and even betrayel by the night elf warlock so that he can attain his powers.

Dealing the stereotype of a race does not mean all of them are going to act the same. Do I agree with the actions of the OP's pair of nelfs? Not really... but I can see how someone who travels extensively and has dealt with such forces could see it as something other than what they learned before their travels [which may be a negative light].

Edit: Found the quests. It starts in Nijel's Point and continues into Thunder Axe.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Vahlarriel%27s_Search
Edited by Shatterbolt on 12/1/2012 5:01 PM PST
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100 Night Elf Rogue
15595
This concept of severity of wars fascinates me. Let's talk about it for a bit.

Ultimately, it can work. The Legion works as an ever-present, ever-lingering threat in the background, perpetually ready to strike at a moment's notice. Velen works as a good way to remind us of it's dangers, certainly.

But the key word there needs to be "background." If the Legion becomes an omnipresent threat, on par and greater than the current battle, then the tension of the current conflict is stripped away.

Think about MoP's war. We're locked in a duel to the death, neither side willing to compromise and each one knowing that it will end in one of their total destruction. It's a fight to the finish and there is no room for survivors.

And then Velen says: "Oh, guys, there's another bigger, badder guy out there."

Suddenly, our conflict doesn't seem so interesting.

This, in fact, is why Draenei don't get a lot of lore. They've been portrayed as mostly half-in on the Alliance (though that's changing), with their main concern being the Legion. That was fine for Burning Crusade, but Blizzard really failed to have the Draenei's concerns change with the times. They've always been concerned with the Legion and when the Legion isn't the immediate threat, all that concern does is make the Draenei less involved and make the immediate threat less threatening.

They're playing it somewhat smart here with Wrathion being suitably ominous, but there's a good reason Velen's sitting out.

Mind you, it could be done better.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
7050
I think warlocks are still generally unaccepted by most folk. Didn't Metzen even state that warlocks wouldn't be able to walk around Stormwind with their demons out? Or is that outdated or incorrect information?

Now, night elves do seem to go all in when they are passionate about something. In MoP, Vaeldrin obssesses over finding a new way to immortality and as a result is partially to blame for his daughter's death. So in some cases, there are night elves (other races too) that are willing to accept "the end justifies the means". Accepting the highborne is another example.

But I still think, night elf culture still rejects warlocks as a whole. They are only tolerated due to their involvement with the Alliance. There are only three races that do not allow warlock classes and I think that's a telling sign of how those classes are viewed by the race.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
15595
I take everything Metzen says with a grain of salt. He tends to contradict himself regularly.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
7050
12/01/2012 05:24 PMPosted by Enekie
I take everything Metzen says with a grain of salt. He tends to contradict himself regularly.


I know but for all intents and purposes, he is the standard for lore whether we think he's doing a good job or not. And unless he retracts that statement or contradicts it, it should hold true in Azeroth.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
15595
Personally, I wait to see if it's in-game before I believe it.

That doesn't stop me from criticizing an idea before it's implemented, mind you.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
7050
Personally, I wait to see if it's in-game before I believe it.
That doesn't stop me from criticizing an idea before it's implemented, mind you.


Works for me.

And I should make it clear, I don't really care if people walk around with their demons out. There's a great deal of suspension of disbelief in the game anyways. I suppose if I feel fiesty I might roleplay with them and suggest they remove their demons but let's be honest, if they want their demons out, they'll stay. Arguing about something like that never ends up in a good resolution and only causes more drama.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
15595
I actually prefer if they bring their demons out. It gives me an instant conflict and something to act on.

I like it when we have something to do, rather than just sit around politely discussing the weather.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
7050
I actually prefer if they bring their demons out. It gives me an instant conflict and something to act on.

I like it when we have something to do, rather than just sit around politely discussing the weather.


You know, one of these days I'm going to have to RP with you. You seem to have a fascinating character.
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