Destro raiding is awesome?

90 Dwarf Warlock
8615
Is it just me, or is Destro actually competing with Afflic for top dps
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90 Orc Warlock
11315
Destro does compete with affliction some fights, if you suck at destro thats your problem, look at high destro parses, i have outdpsed very good affliction locks on will of emporer 25 with a 118k parse as destro, it doenst suck, you probably do
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90 Troll Warlock
5385
the problem with Destro is there's so little room for improvement. It's so basic that you plateau very quickly.
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90 Orc Warlock
7195
If you play a great destro lock you can compete with good affliction players. Even on single target fights Destro can still do fine. Most fights I don't feel gimped whatsoever being Destruction, and my parses put me alongside some of the better affliction players, plus I actually enjoy playing Destro. I have yet to see a fight where being destro is hurting the raid group and causing us to not get progression.
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90 Orc Warlock
11360
Well there seems to be some players here that know Destro very well, so I have some questions. I normally play demo, and am very comfortable with it. As Affliction I do fine, right around the same dps I do in Demo, but I don't like the style of play.

Last time I played Destro was 5.0.4 before MoP came out other than punching a dummy for a few minutes.

So few simple questions, do you run oom? I did on dummy so just something I'm wondering about. And I assume you still just havoc on cd and use tons of Soulburn on multi target fights, right? And last but not least, I raid with a 4198 haste rating 6425 mastery and 816 crit build for demo and afflic both. Could I keep the same stats and switch between Demo/Destro and be fine?
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90 Undead Warlock
6705
Well there seems to be some players here that know Destro very well, so I have some questions. I normally play demo, and am very comfortable with it. As Affliction I do fine, right around the same dps I do in Demo, but I don't like the style of play.

Last time I played Destro was 5.0.4 before MoP came out other than punching a dummy for a few minutes.

So few simple questions, do you run oom? I did on dummy so just something I'm wondering about. And I assume you still just havoc on cd and use tons of Soulburn on multi target fights, right? And last but not least, I raid with a 4198 haste rating 6425 mastery and 816 crit build for demo and afflic both. Could I keep the same stats and switch between Demo/Destro and be fine?


So basically when you start going oom thats when you cast chaos bolts, it basically has a longer cast time and gives you time to regain mana. Also, as your gear gets better and you get more haste this will become less of a problem as haste makes your already crazy mana regen get even bigger.

Not sure on the stats as I havent really been number crunching in my raids due to laziness.
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90 Human Warlock
17000
11/29/2012 01:57 AMPosted by Rahl
do you run oom?

I usually have mana issues during the initial cycle, going from buff batch 1 to buff batch 2 (when all the ICDs/active buffs are more or less synced). As the fight goes on and the buffs desync, and I'm using Chaos Bolts more regularly it becomes a non-issue. Make sure you're using un-Backdrafted Chaos Bolts.

And I assume you still just havoc on cd and use tons of Shadowburn on multi target fights, right?

Yep, Havoc is free damage, use as much as possible. Snipe bonus embers if possible with Soulburn.

11/29/2012 01:57 AMPosted by Rahl
And last but not least, I raid with a 4198 haste rating 6425 mastery and 816 crit build for demo and afflic both. Could I keep the same stats and switch between Demo/Destro and be fine?

Haste is pretty terrible for Destruction. Mastery and Crit are your key stats; I can't say for sure, but it's been seeming most effective to me to have enough crit to keep ember generation high enough to get some good Chaos Bolt chains off during proc batches, and the rest into Mastery. A lot of people seem to just go straight Mastery anyways.

In short, it'll be ok with those stats, but not perfect.
Edited by Serinicas on 11/29/2012 6:29 AM PST
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11/29/2012 05:00 AMPosted by Serinicas
Soulburn


Is it called Soulburn now?
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90 Orc Warlock
7195
11/29/2012 05:00 AMPosted by Serinicas
Haste is pretty terrible for Destruction
Not correct at all. Stat weights depend on gear, and for destruction the stat weights change a lot depending on your gear. Before the last few upgrades I got, Haste was actually my best stat, now it went back to last. Reforge costs are craaaazy.

You really just need to run your own character in SimC and see what your stat weights are. It's not the same at all gear levels anymore. General rule is that if you go OOM you have too much haste or not enough crit, if you sit at 100% mana you have too much crit. Destro dps is balanced around mana management. Get power auras or something to show your procs, and shoot your CBs when you get some nice procs on a build 1 burn 1 rotation with embers and CBs. If your DS is coming up soon then you can start to slow pool by burning 1 ember for every 2 you gain, then you get about 3 when you get DS, pop DS with procs and unload CB x3 (you should put an incin or immo in between them so your CB DoT doesn't overlap).
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I would love to switch to destro so much, I can pull the numbers with affliction but its so boring.
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90 Human Warlock
17000
11/29/2012 06:07 AMPosted by Mouse
Is it called Soulburn now?

No, I'm just stupid. Need more sleep.

11/29/2012 06:12 AMPosted by Loktronotron
Not correct at all. Stat weights depend on gear, and for destruction the stat weights change a lot depending on your gear. Before the last few upgrades I got, Haste was actually my best stat, now it went back to last.

Weird, I don't think mine have ever been close.

11/29/2012 06:12 AMPosted by Loktronotron
then you get about 3 when you get DS, pop DS with procs and unload CB x3 (you should put an incin or immo in between them so your CB DoT doesn't overlap).

Are you not getting other procs syncing up with DS at all or something, or just don't care? Trying to cram CBs in with Pocketwatch and Lightweave procs without clipping the DoT just meant I missed buffs on the third CB.

Side note, do you know if SP contributions are taken for CB as the cast finishes, or at some point closer to landing? I assumed it was upon cast completion, but I was noticing some fairly anemic CBs that were launched just before buffs were fading so I'm not sure anymore.
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90 Orc Warlock
7195
11/29/2012 06:41 AMPosted by Serinicas
Side note, do you know if SP contributions are taken for CB as the cast finishes, or at some point closer to landing?
Pretty sure it's when the cast finished. Same as if you cast CB then CotE while it's in the air, you're still going to do damage based on the boss not having CotE since it wasn't applied when the cast finished. I've never actually tested it on a dummy though, but it would be fairly simple to test if you wanted to confirm that.

11/29/2012 06:41 AMPosted by Serinicas
Weird, I don't think mine have ever been close.
I've had haste be my best stat twice in my gearing up. The most recent being around 487-488 ilvl.

11/29/2012 06:41 AMPosted by Serinicas
re you not getting other procs syncing up with DS at all or something, or just don't care? Trying to cram CBs in with Pocketwatch and Lightweave procs without clipping the DoT just meant I missed buffs on the third CB.
I usually try to time my DS and Blood Fury up with procs, but it's not a big deal if they don't. DS lasts a while and chances are you're going to have it while procs are up (especially if you have Jade Spirit since it seems like that's almost always up now). If you use ForteX you can see the ICD of stopwatch so you know when you'll probably have that come up.

Basically the only time I really care is at the pull, where I have my prepot I typically wait for a proc or 2 to pop then hit my CDs before popping my Doomguard and then get of 1-2 CBs with all procs and CDs. After that I usually just use DS/BF on cooldown. It's definitely better to line them up with procs, but I'm not going to wait around for 15 seconds for a good batch of procs to be available.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
8885
11/28/2012 06:45 PMPosted by Mitchworks
Destro does compete with affliction some fights, if you suck at destro thats your problem, look at high destro parses, i have outdpsed very good affliction locks on will of emporer 25 with a 118k parse as destro, it doenst suck, you probably do

I'm calling bulls***. I haven't seen a single destro lock break 105k on Will of the Emperor 25 on www.worldoflogs.com let alone hit 115k.

I have to say... do hunters really suck THAT bad??
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90 Orc Warlock
7195
http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu%27shan_Vaults/Will_of_the_Emperor/25N/Destruction_Warlock/

There are currently 18 Destro Locks who have WoL parses of > 105k on 25N Will. The guy who is saying he has a high parse is currently #6 with just under 117k DPS. So yes, if you looked at logs you'd see it's possible.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
8885
I stand corrected!! I must have been looking at the wrong tab or something. The highest destro is 138k (holy s***??!) and the highest affliction is 141k. Now, when I looked there was only one guy at 138k and everyone else clustered a good 16k below him. With Affliction, there's over a dozen people above 130k and some over 140k.

This suggests that more good players with proper gear need to try Destro now. OR...
Given how long ago it was when that 138k parse occurred, maybe a nerf happened since then? I honestly don't know, this toon didn't exist on 10/23 and I wasn't following warlocks very closely.
Edited by Blackmourne on 11/29/2012 1:20 PM PST
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90 Orc Warlock
15195
The top rankings on 25 heroic will of the emperor are Affliction: 122-160k and Destro: 84-118k.

Might just be a result of more people playing Affliction than Destro, but those numbers are clearly different and telling. This is not necessarily a knock on normal modes, but heroic usually gives a better idea of what specs can perform at....sometimes to the extreme

I am hopeful some of the recent buffs to destro bring it more in line to affliction.
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90 Worgen Warlock
13255
I love Destro with all of my heart but it can't keep up with Affliction even on its best day. Granted I run Destro anyway but w/e.

Also, Destro is way far behind my Monk's WW dps. He consistently does 66-80k while my Warlock at most does 60k. I know I'm doing both rotations well and they both have the same ilvl. /shrug
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90 Orc Warlock
7195
I would assume that there are far less instances of a destro lock raiding on 25m heroic will than affliction compared to normal mode where min maxing dps isn't as big a deal. To be honest I haven't even looked at differences in mechanics on heroic as to why it would be that much different though.

You need to just compare yourself to where you are. Don't compare affliction to destro on heroic will kills if you are currently progressing on elegon. Different gear will give you different numbers, and different encounters will be better for one spec than others. If you are trying to progress on normal mode Feng and you see that affliction locks are destroying destro, then maybe you could think about switching specs. But imo until I run into a problem where my DPS as destro is holding back the raid I'm going to raid destro, and that problem hasn't come close to occurring yet.
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