Why doesn't Bliz release *full* patch notes?

90 Goblin Shaman
10080
11/28/2012 07:22 PMPosted by Daxxarri
So it's just coincidence that almost all of the stuff that you "forgot" to put in the patch notes are things that negatively impact the game?


I have a question for you:

Do you really think that we believe that players are happier to find these things out on accident, with no warning? That somehow we think we can slip things by un-detected, when logic, history, and all evidence points to the contrary?

What's the advantage there?


Considering how upset I currently am due to several undocumented changes, I don't think I'm in the best frame of mind to answer that right now.
Reply Quote
10 Tauren Shaman
6570
11/28/2012 07:22 PMPosted by Daxxarri
So it's just coincidence that almost all of the stuff that you "forgot" to put in the patch notes are things that negatively impact the game?


I have a question for you:

Do you really think that we believe that players are happier to find these things out on accident, with no warning? That somehow we think we can slip things by un-detected, when logic, history, and all evidence points to the contrary?

What's the advantage there?


How about you let us know when there are forum posts then? How long did it take you to admit to the realm time change? The LFR queue notice screen? The Brawlers Guild CRZ?
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
7970
Can Blizzard be 100% perfect 100% of the time? NO never, and they never claimed to be as you can read in this thread. Nobody can be 100% perfect 100% of the time so people need to stop attacking. Just be glad they provided patch notes. >:l
Reply Quote
If they don't need to then dont, but patch notes are evidence for Blizz and I can't understand why they refuse to provide certain information


Why do you need "evidence"?

Come on, folks. This is a video game. If you need evidence of every change in the code? You're over-fixating.


Well I don't mind surprises, but if patch notes don't tell us all that was done, then how do we know if something that was changed is, or isn't a bug? Example Golden lotus for harmony, or the fact that voidwalkers have become squishier after the patch?
Edited by Tsavis on 11/28/2012 7:30 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Death Knight
6715
I'm not sure I'd be interested in seeing all the "changed doodad_3_blue to doodad_4_green" statements a full list might contain.

They release what they feel is important to the players. Some thing slip through the cracks at times. But we get most of the good stuff.


Actually there are lots of pretty big changes that weren't listed such as the PvP Power change and various stealth nerfs (Soul Consumption for Destrolocks was a nasty surprise).
Reply Quote
I have a question for you:

Do you really think that we believe that players are happier to find these things out on accident, with no warning? That somehow we think we can slip things by un-detected, when logic, history, and all evidence points to the contrary?

What's the advantage there?


The advantage is you can simply ignore addressing the issue like is almost always done with "stealth nerfs." Just change it and not say a word.
How can they ignore something when SOMEONE will ALWAYS detect the change and post about it?

That is what he was trying to say

Constructive advice for mr daax: one person from each dev team should be in charge of reporting ALL of their teams changes to you, mr daax - that would help ensure all changes come your way more often then not
Edited by Zaxan on 11/28/2012 7:37 PM PST
Reply Quote
14 Gnome Rogue
0
I feel like patch notes have become less and less detailed over time. Has the role been handed off to you from someone else? Patch notes used to contain as you described "pages and pages" of changes, now we're lucky to even get a fraction of what actually occurs when a large patch comes out.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Hunter
9275
11/28/2012 07:24 PMPosted by Daxxarri
This should most definitely been in the patch nots yet absolutely nothing has been said about it from Blizzards end.


Indeed, it should have been. The fact that completing a partially cleared instance should cause your next Raid Finder queue to always be a fresh instance should also have been noted as well.

I'll be adding both of those to the notes shortly, in fact.


But won't this just perpetuate the problem of people leaving during raids even more?

If I join a partially finished raid, then go to another raid to finish the bosses I haven't done I will then be leaving after completing the bosses I need. Blizz needs to find some way to keep people in the raid for the whole thing from boss 1 to until the end.
Reply Quote
Community Manager
The advantage is you can simply ignore addressing the issue like is almost always done with "stealth nerfs." Just change it and not say a word.


I still don't see how that's an advantage. We always have the option of discussing a topic or not. 'Hiding' something would just make people grumpier when it sneaks up on them, which makes it even harder to speak about it in a constructive atmosphere.

I'll be honest: I'm having a hard time picturing how you think things work around here. I admit to having a nice diabolic cackle now and then, but it's not like I'm sitting in front of a bank of monitors each filled with an angry forum thread, stroking a siamese cat and telling my henchmen that they've failed me for the last time.
Reply Quote
10 Tauren Shaman
6570
11/28/2012 07:33 PMPosted by Daxxarri
The advantage is you can simply ignore addressing the issue like is almost always done with "stealth nerfs." Just change it and not say a word.


I still don't see how that's an advantage. We always have the option of discussing a topic or not. 'Hiding' something would just make people grumpier when it sneaks up on them, which makes it even harder to speak about it in a constructive atmosphere.

I'll be honest: I'm having a hard time picturing how you think things work around here. I admit to having a nice diabolic cackle now and then, but it's not like I'm sitting in front of a bank of monitors each filled with an angry forum thread, stroking a siamese cat and telling my henchmen that they've failed me for the last time.


How about you let us know when there are forum posts then? How long did it take you to admit to the realm time change? The LFR queue notice screen? The Brawlers Guild CRZ?
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
11310
11/28/2012 07:33 PMPosted by Daxxarri
but it's not like I'm sitting in front of a bank of monitors each filled with an angry forum thread, stroking a siamese cat and telling my henchmen that they've failed me for the last time.
... You aren't?
Hopes and dreams shattered...
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Priest
14460
Why do you need "evidence"?

Come on, folks. This is a video game. If you need evidence of every change in the code? You're over-fixating.


It's a video game, sure, but more than that it's a service we are charged regularly for.

If I wasn't throwing away money each month to access the game I'd agree, but I can certainly see why it would be prudent to present any and all changes to the game in a format accessible to consumers when patches or fixes go out.

I personally don't even bother with the patch notes because I expect them to not be complete anymore, but that doesn't mean the company shouldn't start shooting for a higher standard when communicating with its customers.
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
3445
What about Dark Soul being made undispellable? That seems like an absolutely indefensible change to many arena players, since demo lock burst is widely regarded as being OP.

Seems very odd that this huge change would be made yet not be found in the patch notes.
Reply Quote
Community Manager
But won't this just perpetuate the problem of people leaving during raids even more?

If I join a partially finished raid, then go to another raid to finish the bosses I haven't done I will then be leaving after completing the bosses I need. Blizz needs to find some way to keep people in the raid for the whole thing from boss 1 to until the end.


We're always working toward a better system. In the meantime, while the scenario you describe could happen, we should still see more consistent groups and lower queue times than we were seeing previously.
Reply Quote
10 Tauren Shaman
6570
But won't this just perpetuate the problem of people leaving during raids even more?

If I join a partially finished raid, then go to another raid to finish the bosses I haven't done I will then be leaving after completing the bosses I need. Blizz needs to find some way to keep people in the raid for the whole thing from boss 1 to until the end.


We're always working toward a better system. In the meantime, while the scenario you describe could happen, we should still see more consistent groups and lower queue times than we were seeing previously.


Were no community managers informed of any of the new patch changes?
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
7170
I really wish people were not getting so hostile in here, in the traditional "us-vs-them" mentality, as if Blizzard would have gotten away with it if it weren't for those meddling forum dwellers. I respect the answer you gave, Daxxarri, and, while I hope there is a continued effort on the company's part to coordinate and streamline these release notes, I know it is extremely more complicated than most people on here would believe.

That being said, it is nice to get blue response to "hot" issues like this. I still think, however, as a major software company, it would be absolute priority number 1 on patch releases to detail major changes that occur to class playability. This greatly affects how talents are specced and what comp makeups are needed for an encounter. I'm only speaking from a pvp-perspective but I can't help but things like the two examples I mentioned are not just dismissable changes.

As if it counts, for the record, I'm totally 100% in favor of CRZ ;)

Edit: Added additional thought concerning the release of information
Edited by Popegorgeous on 11/28/2012 7:48 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Troll Hunter
14465
Solution: release a patch note addendum. "Official" additional notes will settle questions of if a change is an actual intended change, and so on.
Edited by Oldecrow on 11/28/2012 7:43 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
11735
I would appreciate having all changes noted and explained in one place as well. You could maybe list the major changes at the start and then go into detail for the people who care to read more?
Reply Quote
Community Manager
11/28/2012 07:42 PMPosted by Oldecrow
Solution: release a patch note addendum. "Official" additional notes will settle questions of if a change is an actual intended change, and so on.


I've been updating the notes as items are confirmed.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]