Why doesn't Bliz release *full* patch notes?

100 Blood Elf Warlock
10285
So according to blizzard the answer to your question is human error... weather you agree that's reasonable or not... every profession in the world has human error in some way shape or form... so this can be a fesable answer.

Actually, he didn't confirm whether or not it was human error. He was very careful in his word choice, saying that it could possibly be his fault, or perhaps he was never given the information to relay to us in the first place.

That way, to us, we can say it might not have been his fault. And to his superiors or whomever, he can say, "Look, I never actually blamed you. I said it might be my fault." He's placating both sides.

Honestly, if you think about it, if he's being withheld information, it would be therefore impossible for him to know whether or not it was accidental. Because in being unaware of the information, how could he know why he wasn't?


Well when i said "human error" I meant that as a blanket statement to cover all of blizzard. dax seemed to imply that a compound of very small errors (from many different area's) added up that led to this situation. I wasn't trying to single out the CM.
Edited by Zinstorm on 11/28/2012 9:39 PM PST
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100 Gnome Warrior
14000
In the future I'd like to see more descriptive UI patch notes when big events/API changes take place. It's every addon authors' responsibility to log on to the PTR to test their stuff out. But you could help just a little, Blizzard. Especially in light of the envious amount of documentation you support for the web API.
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28 Orc Warlock
0
11/28/2012 09:41 PMPosted by Limpstick
For example why isn't the Choas Bolt nerf listed anywhere in the patch notes.


Was just about to mention this.

Seemed really really odd for it to be omitted when it changed the spell in a pretty big way.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
10285
11/28/2012 09:42 PMPosted by Samfisher
For example why isn't the Choas Bolt nerf listed anywhere in the patch notes.


Was just about to mention this.

Seemed really really odd for it to be omitted when it changed the spell in a pretty big way.


Haven't played that spec in awhile... in what way did they change it?
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90 Draenei Paladin
10060


Actually, he didn't confirm whether or not it was human error. He was very careful in his word choice, saying that it could possibly be his fault, or perhaps he was never given the information to relay to us in the first place.

That way, to us, we can say it might not have been his fault. And to his superiors or whomever, he can say, "Look, I never actually blamed you. I said it might be my fault." He's placating both sides.

Honestly, if you think about it, if he's being withheld information, it would be therefore impossible for him to know whether or not it was accidental. Because in being unaware of the information, how could he know why he wasn't?


Well when i said "human error" I meant that as a blanket statement to cover all of blizzard. dax seemed to imply that a compound of very small errors added up that led to this situation. I wasn't trying to single out the CM.


"Human error" isn't the reason things are left out of the patch notes unless we are all expected to believe a company the size of Blizzard has nothing resembling a quality control and internal documentation process.

Every change is known and tracked and if something is left off patch notes, it is more than likely by choice, if not by design.

Sometimes I suspect it is because they hope the change will go unnoticed and if they see that it is they adjust what is changeable back before there is "proof" it changed at all.

But to suggest that some chain of human error led the myriad of things that failed to be mention in the patch notes is preposterous. They find it acceptable because their customers as a whole tolerate it.

While it never had the playerbase of WoW, the developers at Everquest had the same "shh, we know best" attitude. Eventually though, there is an expac full of "we know best" that comes along and you can find 80% of your players gone.

EQ did it with ONE expansion that was virtually unplayable and even where it was playable was just not fun. Kind of like dailies, and gold gold gold slot machines and eternal gear upgrading and an overall expected increase in time commitment to play the game like we did for the last 3-4 years.

My playstyle doesn't totally conflict with Mists, but I can't see being entertained by it even as long as I was by 4.3. I just don't have the stomach for doing Golden Lotus again even with the rep doubling.

Mists just plain sucks the fun out of the game by sucking away way too much time demands and if this doesn't change, it's gonna make the Cataclysm bleed look like a paper cut.

TLDR: They don't release full patch notes because they think they don't have to because they believe, like many forum posters, that no one would EVER quit. By the time they learn it doesn't always cycle, sometimes it just goes down, it will probably be too late.
Edited by Hephaestion on 11/28/2012 9:50 PM PST
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This has become a political thread, of conspiracy. And frankly its warranted. There is such a huge list of things that happened to slip that were kinda big, its hard to believe it was even human error.
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100 Tauren Druid
8380
This has become a political thread, of conspiracy. And frankly its warranted. There is such a huge list of things that happened to slip that were kinda big, its hard to believe it was even human error.


My concern is not that this was done out of any sense of maliciousness, but rather incompetence.

I say that given the increasing number of items I'm finding were missing that can be considered pretty big.
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90 Tauren Druid
14205
11/28/2012 07:45 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Solution: release a patch note addendum. "Official" additional notes will settle questions of if a change is an actual intended change, and so on.


I've been updating the notesas items are confirmed.


Any comment on trading 1 Spirit of Harmony for 2 Lotus instead of 3 as it was pre-5.1?
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90 Human Priest
16395
The Alliance Engineering supplies vendor next to the AH in Shrine of the Seven Stars (or whatever, keep forgetting the name) can now repair.

Also, golden lotus conversion rate when purchased by a spirit of harmony is now 2 instead of 3.

The first note? Probably not important enough to be in the patch notes. The second? Probably should've been.
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80 Pandaren Mage
765
I have a question for you:

Do you really think that we believe that players are happier to find these things out on accident, with no warning? That somehow we think we can slip things by un-detected, when logic, history, and all evidence points to the contrary?

What's the advantage there?


/thread


Why no one ever understands that I swear...
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
10285
11/28/2012 09:49 PMPosted by Shinyman
This has become a political thread, of conspiracy. And frankly its warranted. There is such a huge list of things that happened to slip that were kinda big, its hard to believe it was even human error.


it may be hard to believe... but I find it even harder to believe they were left out in hopes of players "missing them":

11/28/2012 07:22 PMPosted by Daxxarri
So it's just coincidence that almost all of the stuff that you "forgot" to put in the patch notes are things that negatively impact the game?


I have a question for you:

Do you really think that we believe that players are happier to find these things out on accident, with no warning? That somehow we think we can slip things by un-detected, when logic, history, and all evidence points to the contrary?

What's the advantage there?


Clearly they don't get much of an advantage of just omitting for the sake of omitting... if at all. (and if they did... dax wouldn't have even responded to the OP in this thread to begin with... or even say what i've just quoted).
Edited by Zinstorm on 11/28/2012 9:56 PM PST
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90 Troll Hunter
17525
I always thought Zarhym did the patch notes. He even said a while back that he did the patch notes. Daxxarri stealin' the spotlight!
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10 Tauren Shaman
0


/thread


Why no one ever understands that I swear...


What is sad is that you don't realize that it's not ok that CM's have to find this stuff out on accident.
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100 Troll Rogue
17815
As a software developer, all I know is that if a patch of mine goes into the system without documentation, then someone's !@#$ is going to get a good reaming. Be it the person in charge of documentation or myself for being shady.

No undocumented changes should go live. Period. Do you guys not practice code freezes?
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90 Undead Mage
9380
Can people just quit behaving like melodramatic little !@#$s to get something they want?

I wasn't going to post, I was reading out of curiosity.

You weren't notified of some somewhat-substantial things, that's a shame.
You demanded answers.
You got some.
You still cried.

Nothing else can be done, Daxx was pretty straightforward with his explanation - which I felt was very similar to my workplace.

They made the changes to their product that they needed to make, this was the first priority. I'd rather they got it done than have more downtime due to documentation. As a community of benefactors of this product we should just accept that it was not on purpose, and stop behaving like children who got 1 piece of candy instead of two. We're still getting the other piece, it just came a bit later.

Really nothing changed that wasn't going to be changed anyway, the emotional range on this thread is just ridiculous.

Not sure if some of you are 25, 30, 35 or older. But holy %^-* if you are I would be embarrassed.

That is all I care to say, my 2c is done.
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93 Troll Death Knight
13505
11/28/2012 09:55 PMPosted by Zinstorm
Clearly they don't get much of an advantage of just omitting for the sake of omitting... if at all. (and if they did... dax wouldn't have even responded to the OP in this thread to begin with... or even say what i've just quoted).

Most players do not read the forums.

Would you want to bet that most players read the patch notes in full? I wouldn't.

Therefore, many players have no idea. If they even notice a change, how would they know if it was undocumented if they never bothered to read the patch notes? I would be willing to guess most players just skip to the part about their class, and that's that. If that.

Someone in my guild thought the search function added to our bags was new. Some people just don't notice things.
Edited by Jubba on 11/28/2012 10:04 PM PST
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90 Human Priest
16395
Also, I haven't tried the other two:

Raid groups are no longer necessary to enter pre-Mists of Pandara raid dungeons. Some bosses that previously required more than one player to defeat are now more easily dealt with by players battling alone:
High Warlord Naj'entus in the Black Temple
Viscidus in the Temple of Ahn'Qiraj
Razorgore the Untamed in Blackwing Lair


But I did try to solo Viscidus.

As a disc priest with no source of frost damage, I was kind of stuck.

The emperor twins also proved to be rather annoying. As a Discipline priest with very slightly more dps than they were healing themselves for, it was a rather long and boring fight getting knocked back into a corner. Think it took 15 minutes to kill them (including not realizing trash from the previous room would pull with the boss. Can't remember if it did that before.)

I also got them down to 500k and then they spontaneously died, don't remember that before either, but then again I've only ever done it in high level groups so maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention.

I sure hope the other fights are more solo-able than these have proven to be. Especially since I -still- don't have an interrupt. =/
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11780

Lol anyone who argues that players can't read all the notes if they wanted are insulting people. Can players not read? If they don't need to then dont, but patch notes are evidence for Blizz and I can't understand why they refuse to provide certain information


Evidence of what? Patch notes are not a replacement for version control revision history. Since it's well known that blizzard at least has a license for github enterprise, it's probably safe to assume that they run git.


Evidence that they officially changed something, not misplaced valuable information to make it feel like a change done behind peoples back when it wasnt intended that way.

Would you rather confirm something through forum posts were people go "i think my mount is slower, is yours slower?"
Or in the Patch Notes where it confirms "ground mount speed has been reduced to 80% from 100%"
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