I slack on my dailies and raid just fine.

90 Tauren Druid
17690
I think we are getting side tracked. The question posed by the OP in this thread was WHY people complain about doing dailies.

Looking back, blizzard has taken steps over the years to remove items which give advantages to raiders that were considered too grindy. Remember putting wizard oils on your weapons in BC? or chain potting throughout fights? Sharpening stones for melee? these features were a part of raiding for a long time and were removed because they were seen as putting an unnecessary burden on raiders who just wanted to focus on raiding... not farming materials for consumables.

So now we have dailies which some people feel like they have to do and don't appreciate it. Be it for tokens for extra loot rolls or now valor so they can upgrade existing gear, there is pressure being put on players to do dailies. If you don't personally feel that pressure that's fine but don't deny that for alot of players it exists in a very real way.
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100 Human Warlock
14355
11/30/2012 11:01 AMPosted by Poliwag
I think you'll find that large percentage is somewhat smaller than you think it is.


I can't really argue with you here since neither of us have any way of backing up our opinions. Agree to disagree?


Absolutely, and that was the exact point I was trying to make ;)

The root of the issue though is that it's not right for an activity in the game to be looked at as a problem simply because of how necessary it feels to someone based on their personal playstyle. It isn't like the old head/shoulder enchant, where you could point to an empty enchant slot and say there was nothing there at all, and therefore that person "wasn't trying". As long as there's epics available through other means, it shouldn't matter how many extra methods there are in the game.
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100 Human Warlock
14355
11/30/2012 11:09 AMPosted by Poliwag
I think we are getting side tracked. The question posed by the OP in this thread was WHY people complain about doing dailies.


They complain because of the perception other players may "get ahead" through doing them, when they personally don't want to. They feel they can't just ignore them because of a fear that they'll be overlooked in favor of someone that didn't ignore them.
I'm yet to see something that doesn't fit that root explanation, and it's a very, very poor (and somewhat selfish) reason to complain about the system.
Edited by Alelsa on 11/30/2012 11:13 AM PST
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100 Night Elf Hunter
18065
Oh, believe me....I am NOT forced to do my dailies.....but, they are more required than you or Blizzard lets on.

See, I purposefully haven't been doing dailies on this toon for the most part. I've done some, but only am exalted with Cloud Serpents. I've been not doing them because I don't really like them....but I would have made myself do them for rep and achievement points already if it weren't for one thing....I wanted to see what the level 90 experience was like without touching my dailies.

For a couple weeks now I've left this toon alone almost entirely (mostly using her to help others do stuff, or attempt the first boss in MV, or battle some pets in Pandaria) because I'm soooo bored. Without doing the dailies I feel like there is nothing else to do but level alts. Now, I know that's my own fault really...I got burned out early on and half gave up. I don't blame Blizzard for that. The dailies are entirely optional....go head and don't bother touching them....it will give you plenty of time to raid on that level 90 and then level a bunch of alts.

I'm not being forced to do the dailies, and I can raid just fine too....but without doing the dailies....there isn't much to do on a max level toon. The dailies ended up being such a HUGE part of the max level content this expansion that I end up FEELING like I'm not participating in the content. I no longer FEEL like running Scenarios, Dungeons, or LFR.....I find myself going back to old content or leveling alts....I find myself spending less time in Pandaria than lands from previous expansions. I wasn't even INTERESTED in the new quests added with 5.1....and that's a first for me. I've been excited about this expansion since Blizzcon, I've been excited about each and every new patch for a long time now.....

I know my case is special to me, but it also serves to illustrate something that is a key point those who dislike the dailies are trying to make...........we may not be forced to do the dailies....but we have reasons why we FEEL like we are forced to do them. Without doing them, it is hard to feel a part of the End Game. Not feeling part of the End Game makes one less likely to want to participate in that End Game. Not feeling like participating in the End Game drives us further away from being a part of the End Game on our max level toons. This creates a vicious loop where even leveling alts feels pointless because we know what waits for us at max level.

I know there are lots of logical and reasonable responses to what I said...which is why I'm not actually trying to convince anyone I'm right. I'm just sayin'....this is how it has been for me and some other people I know that are in the same boat as me. It's just my explanation. I know there is actually PLENTY to do at level 90 and that I'm speaking from an entirely personal stand point.
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87 Goblin Shaman
12520
Uh, if you weren't a complete idiot you did cap your Conquest the first couple of weeks for upgrades from PvP gear. That's completly not needed anymore if you're an actual "progression-orientated raider"
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90 Tauren Druid
17690


I can't really argue with you here since neither of us have any way of backing up our opinions. Agree to disagree?


Absolutely, and that was the exact point I was trying to make ;)

The root of the issue though is that it's not right for an activity in the game to be looked at as a problem simply because of how necessary it feels to someone based on their personal playstyle. It isn't like the old head/shoulder enchant, where you could point to an empty enchant slot and say there was nothing there at all, and therefore that person "wasn't trying". As long as there's epics available through other means, it shouldn't matter how many extra methods there are in the game.


I hear you but your example of the helm/shoulder enchants stems more from the fact that deficiencies in these areas are easily recognized more than anything else. I dont think most people consider "how many dailies do I have to do so that nobody calls me out on being lazy" as much as people consider "how many dailies do I have to do inorder to be as good as I can be?"
Edited by Poliwag on 11/30/2012 11:16 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
13715
11/30/2012 11:07 AMPosted by Jini
YOU who waste their raid groups time by showing up ungeared.
I am 6/6 in MSV and 1 in HoF I tanked all the bosses I had no idea I was wasting my raid groups time.
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90 Undead Rogue
8370
Well, I'll just pick one issue.

If you want the good bracer enchants for your guild, the +180 to str, agi or int, you have to be revered with the August Celestials to buy them from the Quartermaster.

You can't even do August Celestial dailies unless you are Revered with the Golden Lotus.

Forced Golden Lotus dailies until revered.

Then forced August Celestial dailies until revered.

There is no other way to gain rep except through dailies.

So, while not necessarily 'forced' if you want to argue that you don't need good bracer enchants.

But for the majority who do want the enchants, yes, the dailies are forced.


Your guild doesnt need you to do the enchants
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90 Tauren Druid
17690
11/30/2012 11:12 AMPosted by Alelsa
They complain because of the perception other players may "get ahead" through doing them, when they personally don't want to


It's way more than just a perception. You can argue about how important the benefit is for players who cap valor each week and doing dailies. The importance of the benefits is arguably subjective. The fact that they receive a benefit, however, is purely objective.
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90 Worgen Warlock
4920
I went through a period where I would do Golden Lotus and Klaxxi every day but then I realized that I would be better off getting rep when I was getting close to capping max Valor.

Recently got to Revered Shado-pan and Friendly Celestials.

I should probably finish Celestials for the enchants...
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11835
You won't see this as much because now people can upgrade their gear with Valor. So people who don't want to do dailies should be able to cap their valor by doing what they want and be able to do. I hope. Otherwise, I am going to be very bummed that people I thought wanted choice don't really want choice.

Now the only "forced" argument (read my forced is not the definition of forced as in someone is threatening my life and the lives of my family, but the "I have no other choice or option other than this" kind of definition): Golden Lotus. They gate the other two reputations until you are revered. If you do want to be able to do your own enchanting because you are an enchanter (go figure some people really want to make their own gold using their profession they have put gold into and not pay an high amount to someone else) you will need to do them. I'm not complaining about those due to this being a natural occurrence throughout the game, but never has it been gated before. I think this has led to a lot of people feeling "forced" because they have no other recourse but to do one set of dailies to revered in order to even open up the dailies for the factions they really want.

Plus, I'm biased, I really hated Golden Lotus. I found them to be the most boring, most monotonous sets of dailies ever with all the stupid gather quests that made me want to pull my hair out unless it was 2 am and no one was there. They also gave the lowest amount of reputation than any other faction.
Edited by Kaeilthas on 11/30/2012 11:30 AM PST
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90 Gnome Mage
3450
I've still not seen a single good argument demonstrating that doing these dailies is "required."
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90 Tauren Druid
17690
11/30/2012 11:25 AMPosted by Kaeilthas
They also gave the lowest amount of reputation than any other faction.


Blizzard seemed to balance the amount of rep given by particular dailies to the number of dailies available for that faction. So if you do all 13 or w/e golden lotus dailies you get the same amount of rep with them as you would with nat pagle for his 3 fishing quests.
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90 Tauren Druid
17690
11/30/2012 11:26 AMPosted by Fleafly
I've still not seen a single good argument demonstrating that doing these dailies is "required."


And you likely wont. I don't think anybody would be able to persuade you that enchantments are required. or gems. or reforging. or anything else people do to improve their character's output or survivability

Something being required is a general term. Sure, certain guilds may place hard and fast requirements on their raiders based on past experience. If you just roll by yourself and do what you do, nobody is gonna require you to do anything. besides pay 15 bux a month, that is.
Edited by Poliwag on 11/30/2012 11:33 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11835
11/30/2012 11:28 AMPosted by Poliwag
Blizzard seemed to balance the amount of rep given by particular dailies to the number of dailies available for that faction. So if you do all 13 or w/e golden lotus dailies you get the same amount of rep with them as you would with nat pagle for his 3 fishing quests.


I understand that, but I still hate them and the 110 rep they give as we turn them in just irritated me more due to my irritation to begin with. I hated having to do that many boring monotonous quests. The only reason I'm currently exalted is because I was helping my SO on his priest get them done. Otherwise, it would have sat there at nearly exalted since I got my neck in raid. But this is just me, other dailies I don't mind and did them.
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90 Tauren Druid
17690
You should try being exalted with tillers and wondering if its worth maxing all the individual friends if you feel that way.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
so many blizzard fanboys trying to defend their daily centric endgame model.
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90 Pandaren Monk
13715
11/30/2012 11:39 AMPosted by Poliwag
You should try being exalted with tillers and wondering if its worth maxing all the individual friends if you feel that way.
I like the tillers! I get nifty little things from being friends with others :)

11/30/2012 11:40 AMPosted by Mandulis
so many blizzard fanboys trying to defend their daily centric endgame model.

I fail to see what this has to do with anything, I also fail to see the "fanboy" argument people present so often.
Edited by Mistweavers on 11/30/2012 11:41 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
9535
You're not going to be able to maintain a raid spot in a semi-competitive guild without doing dailies. Judging from the OP's current progression his guild isn't really even semi-competitive and that's not a dig or anything just the truth.
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