So how would you all rank the difficulty?

60 Draenei Death Knight
0
Stone Guard requires a bit more coordination and awareness, that's all. It's not too hard to be a first boss.

Elegon... maybe should have been the last boss in MSV instead of 2nd to last. Or heroic only like Sinestra, if for nothing else than story reasons.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
17795
12/02/2012 01:07 PMPosted by Sarosha
Get better or quit has never worked as an argument.


Get better or stick to LFR has been a good argument, One I'm wondering why it doesn't exist, now that you have welfare mode, normal mode and heroic mode.
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94 Human Paladin
13255
12/02/2012 01:54 PMPosted by Postonforums
Get better or stick to LFR has been a good argument, One I'm wondering why it doesn't exist, now that you have welfare mode, normal mode and heroic mode.


It's quite possible that LFR will enable them to keep a more aggressive tuning on normal modes. Or, it might not. It all depends on how people react to the content. I have no evidence they aren't pleased with current progression numbers.

However, if, for example, normal and heroic mode participation becomes very low, they might decide they should detune them. Or, they might decide to just omit them, and stick with only LFR. That would certainly simplify the job they have designing raids.
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90 Goblin Mage
14915
12/02/2012 12:53 PMPosted by Wisemuffins
and before you try to say "but those are the best guilds, it's too hard for me"- then get better. don't beg for it to get easier, get better.


/eyeroll

The primary difference between you and players who are more or less progressed isn't that they're better or worse. It's that the other 9 or 24 people in their raid are better or worse than the other 9 or 24 people in your raid. But I guess saying "Get a better guild" doesn't make you feel as good about yourself?
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
17795
It's quite possible that LFR will enable them to keep a more aggressive tuning on normal modes. Or, it might not. It all depends on how people react to the content. I have no evidence they aren't pleased with current progression numbers.

However, if, for example, normal and heroic mode participation becomes very low, they might decide they should detune them. Or, they might decide to just omit them, and stick with only LFR. That would certainly simplify the job they have designing raids.


I think DS was an experiment, they decided that LFR existing meant that Heroic DW had to be a joke, and, yes the tier dragged on -forever, but the lack of difficulty killed it.
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90 Troll Shaman
12580
12/02/2012 12:49 PMPosted by Sarosha
What is the LFR player supposed to do for these next 4-5 months if not move into normals?


Get better so he can handle them.

If you're geared then there's no reason you can't do normals. If you can't do normals in with a raid group decked out in LFR gear you absolutely suck at this game, not to mention some of that gear is probably upgraded by them. They're tuned for heroic dungeon gear. No, they're actually tuned a little bit less than that TBH. Probably 460 ilevel.

12/02/2012 12:53 PMPosted by Wisemuffins
Guard is just too hard for an entry boss.


Guard has like a 12 minute enrage timer, and an extremely loose DPS check. On 10 man, which is what most casual "I have a life and can't devote time into this game" normal guilds are, there are 3 guards up at a time. There are effectively three mechanics you have to watch for in that fights.

If you can't do that you should probably not raid.
Edited by Liax on 12/2/2012 2:19 PM PST
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12/02/2012 01:59 PMPosted by Osmeric
Get better or stick to LFR has been a good argument, One I'm wondering why it doesn't exist, now that you have welfare mode, normal mode and heroic mode.


It's quite possible that LFR will enable them to keep a more aggressive tuning on normal modes. Or, it might not. It all depends on how people react to the content. I have no evidence they aren't pleased with current progression numbers.

However, if, for example, normal and heroic mode participation becomes very low, they might decide they should detune them. Or, they might decide to just omit them, and stick with only LFR. That would certainly simplify the job they have designing raids.


Im not sure they can omit them.

LFR doesnt have any holding power... they would have to get a new lFR out every 3 months.

That being said I do see a detune as a viable path, more likely next tier is going to be closer to DS in difficulty.

Which is why as it stands now, my sub is up in 35 or so days and Im not seeing a major reason to change that.

Ill be back in march or april when 5.2 and its LFR come out.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8415
As a whole too hard.

attendance has been anemic at best.

Go listen to the last Legendary, US progression has been HORRIBLE.


HAHA this made me laugh. One dude who actually plays the game, one guy that only likes Star Wars games, and one dude that just had a kid and only plays Will it Donkey.
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As a whole too hard.

attendance has been anemic at best.

Go listen to the last Legendary, US progression has been HORRIBLE.


HAHA this made me laugh. One dude who actually plays the game, one guy that only likes Star Wars games, and one dude that just had a kid and only plays Will it Donkey.


Lore's a pretty dedicated gamer.

But that doesnt change the fact that US progression is extremely stunted.
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94 Human Paladin
13255
US progression has been HORRIBLE.


How does it compare to T11? Overall progression in T14 is comparable to T11; is the US more behind EU/KR than it was then?
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12/02/2012 02:37 PMPosted by Osmeric
US progression has been HORRIBLE.


How does it compare to T11? Overall progression in T14 is comparable to T11; is the US more behind EU/KR than it was then?


Its hard to read some of this stuff because we dont have accurate records.

but progression in general seems a tad slower than tier 11

On Us vs EU, I cant tell, I know my server is way way way behind where it was in tier 11.

I would have bet money the first progressive nerfs would have started late november early december, but I think the devs are praying to the gods of raiding, participation picks up with valor upgrades.
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100 Undead Warlock
22455
12/02/2012 02:42 PMPosted by Sarosha
I would have bet money the first progressive nerfs would have started late november early december,


You do recognize progressive nerfs do exist in the game currently? It's called having more gear than the previous time you tried an encounter. Every single reset every boss in the game is nerfed for every raiding team in the world by virtue of the gear they craft, buy, or get from drops.

Having full LFR gear is effectively outgearing MSV and to a certain extent HoF at this point. That's just as much of a "nerf" to the content as a ten or fifteen percent scaling buff. It really is.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
17795
Progressive nerfs wouldn't have come out the week Terrace was released
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12/02/2012 02:48 PMPosted by Postonforums
Progressive nerfs wouldn't have come out the week Terrace was released


They arent going to hit at the same time.

There is a seperate nerf for MSV, Hof, Toes
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90 Night Elf Monk
11460
Been stuck on Stone Guard for like 2 months. So uh, pretty difficult.
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90 Orc Shaman
10385
12/02/2012 03:01 PMPosted by Zenway
Been stuck on Stone Guard for like 2 months. So uh, pretty difficult.


wat.
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90 Night Elf Monk
11460
12/02/2012 03:12 PMPosted by Lohk
Been stuck on Stone Guard for like 2 months. So uh, pretty difficult.


wat.


Just don't ask.
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90 Orc Warlock
13430
I think the perception of this tier might be skewed because of how easy DS was. I didn't personally run DS much but I've heard it was very easy and went on forever. Segway into a completely new expansion. Add in LFR as well, and you've got a whole new ideology with regards to raiding. They're never going to be as hard as they once were.

I think the problem you're going to see with LFR is that it's really become almost impossible to wipe to. But players who haven't done normals before will get bored with LFR and think, I should go to normals now. I bet they'll be easy, just like DS and LFR. Wipe a couple of times, demand the content should be nerfed, that it's too hard.

WoW is an MMO. It needs to be designed for long-term rewards, but there seems to be a shift towards altering things to be more easily done. It feels like Blizzard is giving up long-term market success for short-term gains, but that just seems so short-sighted.

TL;DR: T14 is relatively easy (normal mode), probably will be same for rest of expac.
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90 Troll Shaman
12580
12/02/2012 03:01 PMPosted by Zenway
Been stuck on Stone Guard for like 2 months. So uh, pretty difficult.


THEY DO NOT YIELD
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100 Pandaren Monk
8330
I'm not that far into the raids yet. Team has taken down second boss in MSV so far and starting on 3rd tomorrow and done every boss in LFR.

My thoughts as a casual raider :

I like the mechanics this time around as they add some fresh new layers of danger to the encounters and make the whole team have to work together to get it right.

Take the stone guard for example :

Tanks mess up a swap -> deadly
People standing in stuff -> deadly
People not getting cozy during chains -> deadly

Three major mechanics in a single fight that affect each role differently. As tanks never get chained we just worry about the swaps and staying out of things. DPS has to worry about staying out of stuff (which the tanks should be moving the dogs away from to help the melee people) and chains making sure they get joined at the hip to whoever is on the other side. Healers have to deal with those 'Oh No' moments when the tanks miss a swap (helps when the tanks control vent on this fight as we can say 'oh no guys .. big heals and pop cooldowns' when it happens) plus when people get stuck in stuff or chains get stretched (not to mention shards) while still dealing with the normal tank damage.

A lot of things can go wrong on that fight which adds to the fun of it. Makes it a growing experience for the raid team to learn their coordination if they were not raiding in past expansions together (like my raid team). Learn to work well together and then dealing with the mechanics on other fights will be easier. For instance it took us <too many> tries to kill the dogs on our raid team but less than 10 attempts at feng before we dropped him because we just work better with each other each and every week that we raid together which this tier or raiding is forcing us to do. Please note this week after patch the dogs were a 1-shot :D

So overall : I like the difficulty of the raids so far.
Edited by Somaliu on 12/2/2012 4:02 PM PST
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