Do you guys need a design overhaul?

90 Troll Hunter
9150
I know this seems like someone maining a rogue, posting on an alt, to complain about rogues. It's not.

This is my main (I just don't have the time to do progressive raiding and I don't like PvP). I want to enjoy rogues, though. I had a rogue main in Burning Crusade and haven't touched him since.

I've made new rogues, each time I've deleted them around lvl 30 and this bothers me because there is something about the class I want to like. Something I even USED to like.

When I think about it, it seems like rogues just do not offer a unique experience. I recently rerolled an old warlock and I love the new designs of that class. Rogues feel the same way they always have, with no real tricks that other classes don't have. Their resource system has been C/Ped on to other classes, their speed can be seen in monks, the melee combat in warriors, the stealth in druids, etc.

I am not saying that I feel like rogues are bad, just that they need something fresh. In the class race they are stagnating. Or at least this is how it feels to me.

To those of you who have rogue mains and still diligently follow the class, are they fun at later levels? Or do they still feel stale?
Edited by Hazzal on 12/4/2012 7:59 AM PST
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Rogues loved playing rogues in Cata for the most part. They just up and decided to change what was bread and butter in MoP. This being the mobility and survival spells ShStep, prep, and recup.

I don't think the class needs a design change, but needs a developer team that doesn't half-!@# rogue design because they want to stack the number of monks being made.

I'm more than convinced that we will see minimal buffs to the end of this expansion with GC blowing smoke up our asses.
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90 Undead Rogue
0
We need our skills removed as talents and placed in their subsequent trees, and we need the talents they were to be new exciting talents... Preferably something Rogue like!

We need some synergy in the mechanics of the class being fluid, as in clunky energy waste, up time abilities and poor energy regeneration. We also need some better poison options the ones we got are lack luster and or old!
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
12855
I'd say yes if I thought it was possible. But Blizzard seems pretty much stumped on rogues.
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90 Undead Rogue
0
Rogues loved playing rogues in Cata for the most part. They just up and decided to change what was bread and butter in MoP. This being the mobility and survival spells ShStep, prep, and recup.

I don't think the class needs a design change, but needs a developer team that doesn't half-!@# rogue design because they want to stack the number of monks being made.

I'm more than convinced that we will see minimal buffs to the end of this expansion with GC blowing smoke up our asses.


I have always loved Rogue, I made this guy long time ago... I love the Rogue class this is the first time I am skeptical about attacking an opposing player being careful of what buffs they have CD timers, and HP pools... It sucks it really sucks!
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100 Goblin Warlock
10115
Tbh I was wondering this same thing... What exactly is missing of rogues? I really don't think the imbalance is that great as some make it out to be (its mostly some rogues not liking, not been gods like in cata) but it is their, now the question is what exactly is it? It is not dmg, in pve rogues are pulling the highest melee dps, and in pvp a rogue can still kill anyone without defensives in a single kidney.

It is not survivability per say, since if u add up the cooldowns a rogue has vs other melee it isn't that bad..., quick side to side comparison!

DK Rogue
AMS Vanish
IBF Evasion
Lichborne Combat Readiness
Cloak of Shadows

You can add prep their if you want. It can't possibly be lack of cc since right now they are the melee with the most ccs at their disposal. What about self-healing? Well tbh this is the area were rogues lack behind, I don''t think you guys have that 20%+ passive healing anymore do you? What this means is a rogue can't recover from a hard hit while his healer is cc'ed, the way a DK, a warr, a hunter, even a monk I believe.

Mobility is out of the question, you guys now can be kited again QQ moar...
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90 Undead Rogue
0
12/03/2012 10:23 AMPosted by Frinkls
not been gods like in cata


Not everyone was a god! Not everyone PVEd and ascertained Legendaries!

No time in Cata on any of my other classes was I in fear of losing to a Rogue!
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100 Goblin Warlock
10115
12/03/2012 10:25 AMPosted by Homiejackson
No time in Cata on any of my other classes was I in fear of losing to a Rogue!


Did u ever played a Lock in duels o.O I mean I used make it happen... but well... it wasnt easy at all xD
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90 Undead Rogue
0
DK Rogue
AMS Vanish
IBF Evasion
Lichborne Combat Readiness
Cloak of Shadows


Lichborne is a Frost spec free talent, combat readiness is ramp up ability that requires 5 melee hits for it to work. ( Most Rogues cannot live through 5 hits )

AMS is an ability to absorb spell damage while dealing damage to your target, Vanish is an ability to escape.

Ice Bound Fortitude removes stuns, prevents knock backs, and gives 20% damage buff, Evasion gives the Rogue 50% dodge!
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90 Undead Rogue
0
Rogue tool kit is small and on lengthy CDs, most Rogues will avoid using what they have out of fear wasting it and not having it when necessary! Thats how screwed we are! While other classes Smash, Bash, and Crash with reckless abandon we Rogues skulk around looking for a way to help.
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
12855
And just like that, the thread goes from rogues needing an overall to a debate over arena balance.
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100 Goblin Warlock
10115
12/03/2012 10:30 AMPosted by Homiejackson
Lichborne is a Frost spec free talent


no.
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#k|
I don't have a DK, in fact I despise DKs and even then I know that...

12/03/2012 10:30 AMPosted by Homiejackson
AMS is an ability to absorb spell damage while dealing damage to your target, Vanish is an ability to escape.


AMS is a gap closer, a defensive cooldown, and possibly a escape cooldown, all of this is shared by Vanish, just vanish is much better since I can't one shot you through it.

12/03/2012 10:30 AMPosted by Homiejackson
Ice Bound Fortitude removes stuns, prevents knock backs, and gives 20% damage buff, Evasion gives the Rogue 50% dodge!


You mean 20% dmg reduction buff* and yea thats the trade off, add there cloak of shadows and actually rogues have the upper hand :\ The only thing that could maybe fit in that argument is that aside from warriors, rogues do not have a second trinket or a way of mitigating dmg while stunned. (PERHAPS I am terribly wrong again and you guys can actually use stuff while cc'ed but never seen it happen by top players)

12/03/2012 10:36 AMPosted by Verelyse
And just like that, the thread goes from rogues needing an overall to a debate over arena balance.


Ok ;o wait.. isn't the claim "I need a overhaul" accompanied by the claim "I think I am worse off, or more of a nuisance to play than most others, or as the OP puts it, rogues are just not as fun?"
Edited by Frinkls on 12/3/2012 10:41 AM PST
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90 Troll Hunter
9150
My curiosity is less about arena balance or pve balance, which are both fickle things, than about the class as a whole.

I guess I just feel like they didn't get that fresh polish that some other classes got this expansion, and that's what keeps me rerolling despite wanting, desperately, to enjoy rogues. Even the talent trees consist mostly of old abilities, some of which look like they should have been baseline.

I'm wondering if lvl 90 rogues feel this way, or if the class does play well at 90 and I just haven't given myself a chance to get there.
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
12855
12/03/2012 10:37 AMPosted by Frinkls
Ok ;o wait.. isn't the claim "I need a overhaul" accompanied by the claim "I think I am worse off, or more of a nuisance to play than most others, or as the OP puts it, rogues are just not as fun?"

We're generally pathetic in PvP this season, with a representation a hair's breadth above monks at 3%. But most of the problems aren't with rogues, but with balance issues with several other classes.

Nahj takes a good perspective on this in his balance-related posts.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/search?f=post&a=Nahj%40Tichondrius&sort=time

We are truly badly off in PvP right now, but we look worse than we are due to other issues.

I didn't take the OP as approaching anything about PvE/PvP viability, since you don't quit a class at level 30 because they're behind in arenas at 90. There's something fundamentally false about how our class is portrayed. Even though we're pulling good numbers in PvE, like you pointed out, it doesn't change the fact that the class is boring as !@$# to play and our specs are mirror images with differently named DPS CDs.

Example:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200302396?page=2#21

Basically we're the prime example of catch-22 class design. With the exception of smoke bomb and anticipation, every change we've received in the past two expansions were boring fixes to exasperating problems, instead of interesting abilities to evolve our gameplay. We're also locked into three melee DPS specs with very little differentiation, which feels like we're one class with one spec cut into thirds.

My point is regardless of temporary PvP problems, we have extremely long standing recreational ones.
Edited by Verelyse on 12/3/2012 11:06 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Rogue
0
i read the description on rogue and i said to myself, "That's what I want to be"

I want to be the sneaky class, dealing high damage quickly. Leveling rogues are a nightmare and it will probably always be.

If blizz just kept to what they had working it would be nice.

Combat= sustained dmg and can stand in fights and not be demolished
Assassin= Poisons master
Sub= High burst: master of invisibility

Its a bore because all the specs pretty much the same. We need a do-over it seems like.

I used to play swg and at one time they had a class called combat medic. They had health and mind diseases which temporary reduced the amount of hp/action a player could have.

It was op but it was a sweet idea. But I cant really compare those two because in swg you can respec to a different class entirely with the same race.
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90 Undead Rogue
0
no.
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#k|
I don't have a DK, in fact I despise DKs and even then I know that...


Yea I forgot its a talent now but as is Combat readiness, still Licheborne is superior. As I stated if I pop CR and wait for 5 hits I'll be dead.
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90 Undead Rogue
0
12/03/2012 10:37 AMPosted by Frinkls
Ok ;o wait.. isn't the claim "I need a overhaul" accompanied by the claim "I think I am worse off, or more of a nuisance to play than most others, or as the OP puts it, rogues are just not as fun?"


Rogues are clunky, CD dependent on looooooong Cool Downs, energy starved and have poor mobility which results in no real damage to players because we are constantly trying to get to them.
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100 Dwarf Rogue
12720
I wouldn't mind a class overhaul. Been playing this thing for like 6 years maybe? But in previous expac's i did very much feel like a rogue, but now that most other classes got these crazy awesome spells that really compliment their classes i feel like we got left behind. Even if their new spells are crazy op, weak, or useless. For example the hunters extra pet that comes and attacks with it. That's awesome, a mages frost bomb, it's OP as hell but i love it even though i don't have a mage. Even how some of warlocks spells require losing hp to cast a spell because that's just the type of class they are. Willing to hurt themselves to further their dark magic.

While on our side we got crazy ninja stars to throw that happen to be rather anticlimactic to say the least, and the other two 90 talents aren't really that fantastic either. A new an improved redirect was something we've sort of needed for a while, or like monks have our CP's stack on us. Anticipation which is a nice safety net if you're not great at counting how many CP's you already have.

This is such a disorganized rant that i'll gladly admit it's going no where quick. But you know what i want? I want poisons that are badass and deadly. I want a net snare for pvp that doubles over as a sap for pve. I want a chloroform cloth that knocks people out for a couple seconds. I want to feel like a rogue, and right now i don't get that feeling so often.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
13025
I don't know what you guys are talking about. Rogues are awesome. I can hide in crowds, tail people and assassinate them without anyone noticing they just died, jump from roof to roof, or tree to tree. I can climb up and around buildings to get to my assassination targets in ways they've never even dreamed of. If I need a touch of subtlety, I can hang my enemies off trees or poison them.

When I actually get into a fight, I use all of my weapons, my hidden blade, sword, or pistols, in ways to quickly annihilate my targets. If the enemy is tough, I can disarm his defenses, leaving him exposed and open to my attacks, or I can even use the surrounding terrain to my benefit, chucking them against walls or smashing them into barrels. If the battle gets too hairy, I can quickly run away and find great hiding spots.

Oh wait, sorry, I've been playing a game where people who understand what rogues are supposed to be like are actually designing the game.
Edited by Nanaya on 12/3/2012 3:26 PM PST
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