And Mistweavers get the kick (Part 2!)

12/05/2012 11:51 AMPosted by Rakachu
Does anyone else get an oppressive feeling while playing monk now? Every chi builder takes a noticeable chunk of mana. Every panic insta-heal makes it look like you're about to go OOM. Chi spenders heal for just shy of relieving. Raid cooldowns have no impact over drawn out aoe damage. Regardless of the numbers we put out, it just feels like I'm teetering on the edge of running out of mana or effective moves to make all the time. I know I never got this impression from resto shaman/druid, or disc/holy priest. Is it just me?


I feel rather limited, afraid to cast any heal. I began to pick up my holy paladin yesterday, and it really reminded me how much fun healing can be, and since i didnt start to heal seriously until post 5.1 im not really sure how MWs were before the patch.
Edited by Noriel on 12/5/2012 12:03 PM PST
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I'm not 90 yet....though close. You know where I'm finding some relief? Doing battlegrounds. As long as I don't get too happy attacking alliance players, I can usually control my mana as a healer...at least on par with how I do on my disc priest. But If I attack players a lot like when questing, then I'm OOM fast.

I've done a few dungeons since this 'mana crisis' started. I've gotten through, though it sometimes feels like it's harder to manage my mana than it needs to be. But it's nowhere near as bad as questing is IMO.

Are the devs once again forgetting the game is supposed to be about fun first and foremost? I thought they learned that lesson from Cata.
Edited by Rahy on 12/5/2012 12:06 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
12770
Raided HoF last night and starting having ridiculous mana problems that I've never had before. 75% of the way through Garalon I was completely out of mana and was just barely on par with the shaman who still had almost all her mana. Before the nerf I was able to compete and still maintain enough mana to complete fights (exactly where it should be). I've healed for a long time and had a very little amount of overheal for Mistweaver so I know it wasn't just me spending my mana bad. Spells literally feel like they cost too much to be worthwhile, but I'm left without a choice when someone is going to die.
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96 Tauren Monk
17265
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nj43farbznzy465s/sum/healingDone/?s=12022&e=12769

WHELP.

I WIN.

!@#$ THE POLICE.

80-90% mana the whole fight.

edit:

THESE TOO!

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nj43farbznzy465s/sum/healingDone/?s=7480&e=7929

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nj43farbznzy465s/sum/healingDone/?s=4839&e=5395
Edited by Mist on 12/5/2012 8:10 PM PST
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86 Human Priest
15225
So I think I see a pattern. All Mistweavers are noticing that they got nerfed. Some Mistweavers are thinking of cancelling their accounts or rerolling while other are able to find a spot where they can get by or even continue to excel.

What seems to be the difference between these two camps is the gear. Mistweavers in regular modes still just getting geared up seem to be utterly horrible, which Mistweaver caked in gear seem to be able to output.

It looks like this is a scaling issue. Which would be indicative of a poorly designed class.
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96 Tauren Monk
17265
NEVER GIVE UP.

TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9505
I love you Mist. Your hair is pretty.

Now raid 10man and tell me how to do the same :3
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90 Blood Elf Monk
12240
Not to get all QQish, but I'm really starting to regret giving my primary name to this monk. I understand (and support) the nerfs to renewing mist & uplift, because let's face it, that's some pretty insane aoe healing. Everything else...no.

1) For a class where people have been complaining about mana management, I fail to see why so many abilities needed increases in mana costs aside from renewing mist. Compared to just about every other healing class out there, mistweavers run out of mana too quickly, and that's even if we avoid surging mists. Despite having lumped spirit onto EVERYTHING I possibly can, it still doesn't feel like enough. Maybe when we're closer to the end of the expansion, when gear comes with spirit in the thousand+ range, we'll be better off, but from what I've seen, we'll just get our costs increased again to match. Oh boy.

2) Crackling Jade Lightning, Spinning Crane Kick, and Jab: If anything, bring the mana cost of these DOWN. Reduce the healing if necessary, but don't kill our ability to go offensive without the need to stop and drink all the time. It's been established for awhile now that downtime is NOT fun. Boosting the cost of these, especially SCC and Jab, is a huge kick in the teeth to fistweaver fans as well as to those of us who want to do solo stuff in this spec.

If keeping the mana costs of these abilities high is just -so- important to raid balance, then at least allow mistweavers to use tiger stance and retain the hit/expertise/damage bonuses granted by serpent stance. That's perfectly balanced because the healing effects from using those abilities obviously doesn't carry over, nor should they. (Unless of course they were applied only to the mistweaver and at a reduced amount)

I've already all but given up on Brewmaster (my lesser-geared blood dk already outperforms me by absurd amounts) and I really don't want to give up on mistweaver as well, because frankly, windwalker just doesn't interest me.

Thus concludes my QQ. ;)
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96 Tauren Monk
17265
I'd imagine just RM and chi torpedo to victory would work wonders in 10man too.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12520
you'd use more mana and have substantially less numbers in 10man

you'll generally need to cast more than 2 surging mists when 2-healing that same fight in 10man even on normal, specially if the other healer isn't a pally or shaman

you might get a couple of chi torpedo's off here and there during titan gas / between adds, the rest of the time there's not really much of a clump of people
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90 Blood Elf Monk
12240
12/05/2012 08:30 PMPosted by Nimbis
It looks like this is a scaling issue. Which would be indicative of a poorly designed class.

That about sums up my thoughts, too. This trend has actually been plaguing wow for several expansions now, it just hasn't been as noticeable as it is now with mistweaver monks. Blizzard needs to figure out how to make mana regen operate in a more fixed manner, in such a way that it increases just enough to offset the extra haste that comes with better gear. To elaborate:

Currently, a mistweaver who is just gearing up is likely tearing their hair out with mana issues, while a superbly-geared mistweaver is typically doing just fine. We need to see ALL mistweavers doing just fine with mana management (provided they're playing intelligently and not spamming surging mists) regardless of gear ilevels.

For DPS, gear ilevels mean more damage. For healers, gear ilevels mean more healing AND better mana management, and THAT is the problem. There's a reason I typically sleep through the first half of an expansion. ;)
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96 Tauren Monk
17265
12/05/2012 08:50 PMPosted by Goatblezi
you might get a couple of chi torpedo's off here and there during titan gas / between adds, the rest of the time there's not really much of a clump of people


Never say never.

You underestimate our lord and savior chi torpedo.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12520
Not that I'm finding the situation particularly dire in 10man mind you.
On my monk with i488 just doing normals atm.
As someone only just starting to swap over to the monk a couple of weeks before the nerfs, I have to say it was pretty cruisy before they happened. It's certainly not now, but it still seems reasonable if you're really careful with spell choice, and the more gear+spirit you get the easier it should be
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67 Goblin Death Knight
7020
Looks like Monks are in the same boat DKs were in during Wrath.

This is a summary of a part of GC's interview with All Things Azeroth:

Monks are likely the class that needs the most work right now. Mistweavers have been difficult to balance, work on that is still ongoing. Healing and DPS Monks are also underrepresented in PvP.
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100 Draenei Monk
6805
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nj43farbznzy465s/sum/healingDone/?s=12022&e=12769

WHELP.

I WIN.

!@#$ THE POLICE.

80-90% mana the whole fight.

edit:

THESE TOO!

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nj43farbznzy465s/sum/healingDone/?s=7480&e=7929

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-nj43farbznzy465s/sum/healingDone/?s=4839&e=5395


So, I guess Chi Torpedo is working for you? Still fairly useless for 10 man, imo. Also, is there a reason why you're under the 3145 haste plateau?
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96 Tauren Monk
17265
12/05/2012 10:12 PMPosted by Takure
So, I guess Chi Torpedo is working for you? Still fairly useless for 10 man, imo. Also, is there a reason why you're under the 3145 haste plateau?


Oh. New gear, forgot to reforge. Thanks for reminding me.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8130
Yeah chi torpedo is the answer to "throughput" problems. Xuen is bugging out on a couple bosses for me so I've been using chi torpedo a lot more.
I didn't get to AoE heal, they kept complaining about tank heals, so I said screw it and just kept tanks alive (to which I can't do much healing when a disc priest is sniping all my heals -.-'), so my log is significantly worse than yours on H Will QQQ
On the other hand, you can see the full extent of our throughput on my H Tsulong kill haha.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-3gzawf48jwr2inyf/sum/healingDone/?s=18778&e=19253
you have to zoom in to the 2 night phases, but I believe i was averaging 150k phase1 and 135k phase2 with virtually zero mana troubles.

Basically Chi torpedo is way good.
Edited by Astråios on 12/6/2012 12:47 AM PST
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96 Tauren Monk
17265
It's so hilariously good. I just recall laughing. A lot. All night long. I'm probably going to experiment with dropping spirit now, just for shiggles.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8130
Yeah, I've never really been a fan of spirit, 30k+ spellpower is funsies.
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96 Tauren Monk
17265
I like spirit, and I like doing the same numbers, if not more as people who stack int. It's just a comfort level thing. I've always liked having spirit regen to fall back on in case !@#$ gets hairy. I've always been a really aggressive healer, so it pays for me to have the spirit.

I could stand to lose a little bit though.
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