And Mistweavers get the kick (Part 2!)

I noticed the nerf but it didn't seem to hit me as hard as I thought it would. Or maybe I'm just being a lot more cautious with my mana now.

Since Xuen hasn't been fixed I suppose I can try torpedo. Although I'm only on 10m normals.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
7725
Just downed 10m H bladelord and H elegon for the first time, pugging ftw.

On elegon, I was 3healing with a disc priest mostly on smite duty and an hpally. Was mostly meleeweaving and RM on CD during phase 1, mostly dumping chi on chi burst. Chi torpedo is used to both heal and reset stacks. TFT is used when the protector was roughly 40% health, which allowed RM to blanket the entire raid, with 5 chi pooled up the explosions really weren't an issue. Phase 2 was more meleeweaving with RM casted on CD, and on ToD duty during the last orb phase, chi is dumped on uplift instead of chi burst. Final burn phase had me at about 45% mana left, I used jab for a chi generator, and uplift if RM was on 8+ targets with TFT. Otherwise, I just used torpedo and burst to heal, finished the fight with roughly 5% mana left, and did about 50k healing, on par with all the other healers on the meter. Overall the mana nerfs aren't too terrible if you're using a bugged jab.

Bladelord is a terrible fight for monks... but we have a few perks that help out a lot. In H bladelord, the wind step debuff hits like a truck as the encounter progressed. This combined with the vortex phases (require constant movement) made healing the debuffed target difficult... unless you're a monk. Healing spheres are a straight up godsend here, I recommend using a target marker macro to place a raid marker over the debuffed target for easy targeting. Unseen strikes were bubbled by the disc priest, but TFT can and should be used for every one. 3 back to back uplifts after unseen strikes are amazing. RM was used on CD and I jabbed for chi, dumping chi on uplift for stacks of tea. Final phase monk throughput shines, and this brought my hps up to around 45k, roughly 5k under the hpally, and a fair ways above the priest.

Overall in 10 mans, we can still pull good numbers, but we definitely require a lot more finesse (healing sphere usage) than 5.0. This is especially apparent in 2 healed fights, as chi is generally dumped on uplift and surging mana costs are retarded high. Healing spheres are clunky as hell, but they're extremely powerful and cheap to boot as well. The only real gripe I have is with the AI of RM that has already being brought up, seeing RM bounce between two people as everyone else is topped up can be pretty annoying to deal with. My spirit seems to be on the low end of the scale, at 7.8k, but it's enough to get by with even on heavy healing fights.

TL;DR we're relatively ok in 10 mans, provided one can utilize healing spheres well, a good way to practice would be to heal dungeons using only healing spheres lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECjqsbNoQGc

Old school brood war player here, this class scales well with high APM :3
Edited by Kungfuwaifu on 12/6/2012 11:50 AM PST
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90 Draenei Monk
17435
After tonight's raid (25 normal TES and most of HoF - going back tomorrow to finish it up) I feel way more disappointed with my monk this week than last.

Healing isn't fun right now. I'm toying with all the suggested "gimmicks" we're doing now to stay afloat with the changes - Chi Torpedo, Healing Sphere - but I don't find that enjoyable gameplay when they're things I'm relying on constantly or as massive sources of throughput. Yeah, CT can be fun zooming through the raid but I miss the synergy my monk's healing used to have. (I also miss being able to use SCK appropriately without being paranoid about ooming.)

The only fight I was top heals on was Tsulong. Our Disc Priest beat me on Garalon. On some other fights (Blade and Wind Lord), I was beaten by disgusting amounts (again, by the Disc Priest), far more than in the past.

Couple that with the fact I can't console myself with the reassurance of "well, at least I bring X to the table" and yeah, feeling pretty miserable atm. My alt healers look super appealing but I can't reroll because of all the gear invested in my monk, compared to my alts which aren't very well geared (and some are still 85). :/

Really hope my love for this spec gets restored.
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100 Blood Elf Monk
17985
Swaggle. It's important to note that us being LOLOL CHI TORPEDO HEALING SPHERE is a twofold thing. A) It's our best way of maintaining our competitive nature without tanking our healing. and B) A statement as to how stupid monk design is right now.

I'm riding this to the very end. I will find every way to make healing loltastic until they either kill or fix the class. It's the only option I see now.
Edited by Mist on 12/6/2012 4:02 AM PST
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100 Pandaren Monk
10130
My friend gave up on her monk. It's just not fun anymore. She's going OOM every fight and riding it out on fumes while desperately trying to keep her HPS even close to following behind "One-spell Wonders" at the moment. Or that's how it feels. She finds it frustrating, annoying, and not fun at all. And she has no desire to use the healing sphere and chi torpedo gimmicks to try and not completely tank on healing.

She loves healing, she's had a good 11 healers she's played over BC, and she was really enjoying her monk. She got a bit frustrated with the 5.1 changes, but after making the haste adjustments we found through EJs and on here she was content again. After the nerf she just hates it. We're leveling her Paladin now to play instead until we can finish leveling her priest or shaman on this server.
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Chi-Torpedo?

Healing Sphere?

What sorcery is this.

(really is that what we've been reduced to to stay 'effiecient'? Probably why I had so much trouble on Garalon tonight)
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90 Blood Elf Monk
7725
I'm starting to actually like healing spheres as a spot heal, its so fast compared to other heals, bringing a tank up from almost dead to full in 3 crits is awesome (he thought he got LoH'd lol)
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90 Draenei Monk
17435
Swaggle. It's important to note that us being LOLOL CHI TORPEDO HEALING SPHERE is a twofold thing. A) It's our best way of maintaining our competitive nature without tanking our healing. and B) A statement as to how stupid monk design is right now.

I'm riding this to the very end. I will find every way to make healing loltastic until they either kill or fix the class. It's the only option I see now.

Yep exactly.
And your closing remark is basically the position I'm forced into sooo.. I'm right there with ya! Keep fighting the good fight.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
20440
Everyone complaining is terrible and clueless. Monks were doing almost double the healing of other classes on some heroic 25m fights. It's pretty obvious they needed extreme nerfs along the lines of what was done. Just because monks aren't the top healing class on every single fight now does not mean they are bad. Monks have a very high skill cap which most people complaining obviously haven't reached. If you are suddenly doing poorly as a monk healer since the nerfs it's because you are a bad player, not because the class is bad.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
7725
0/10 troll

The argument is simply this.

We're nerfed to the point where our throughput is equal to other healers.
We have absymal raid utility.

No need to bring a monk if you can find a player of equal skill playing a different class (thats not druid, they have their own set of problems)

Most of the QQ here is about how the class is mechanically flawed, which have become blatantly obvious with the 5.1 and mana nerf. Also, blizzard seems to frown upon high skill caps, take a look at warlock rotations from cata to MoP for example.
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100 Pandaren Monk
9105
I like spirit, and I like doing the same numbers, if not more as people who stack int. It's just a comfort level thing. I've always liked having spirit regen to fall back on in case !@#$ gets hairy. I've always been a really aggressive healer, so it pays for me to have the spirit.

I could stand to lose a little bit though.


The problem is with our current mana costs, you either stay at 60%+ mana (doing what you did on will) almost regardless, or you go oom using SCk/Surging/ETC. Spirit doesn't change that very much, and int just makes it a lot stronger. When I'm doing 150k on H Tsulong and entering the next phase at 60% mana and the next best healer is doing 120k and is crying about mana, I find it very amusing, esp. since he has 5k more spirit than me.
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100 Pandaren Monk
9105
After tonight's raid (25 normal TES and most of HoF - going back tomorrow to finish it up) I feel way more disappointed with my monk this week than last.

Healing isn't fun right now. I'm toying with all the suggested "gimmicks" we're doing now to stay afloat with the changes - Chi Torpedo, Healing Sphere - but I don't find that enjoyable gameplay when they're things I'm relying on constantly or as massive sources of throughput. Yeah, CT can be fun zooming through the raid but I miss the synergy my monk's healing used to have. (I also miss being able to use SCK appropriately without being paranoid about ooming.)

The only fight I was top heals on was Tsulong. Our Disc Priest beat me on Garalon. On some other fights (Blade and Wind Lord), I was beaten by disgusting amounts (again, by the Disc Priest), far more than in the past.

Couple that with the fact I can't console myself with the reassurance of "well, at least I bring X to the table" and yeah, feeling pretty miserable atm. My alt healers look super appealing but I can't reroll because of all the gear invested in my monk, compared to my alts which aren't very well geared (and some are still 85). :/

Really hope my love for this spec gets restored.


If it's farm content, disc priests will almost always beat you.
Especially right now.

I think I beat my disc in like, 3 fights this week. (I would've beat her on garalon with a 120k, yeah low comparing to what yo uguys get, hard for me to reach when almost every healer im with is doing 90-100k lol, but some dps wiped us like a scrub and the disc beat me by 12k and i only got 108k second time </3 #baddie.)

But yeah tsulong is my b****.
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100 Pandaren Monk
9105
12/06/2012 12:34 PMPosted by Rainbowglow
Everyone complaining is terrible and clueless. Monks were doing almost double the healing of other classes on some heroic 25m fights. It's pretty obvious they needed extreme nerfs along the lines of what was done. Just because monks aren't the top healing class on every single fight now does not mean they are bad. Monks have a very high skill cap which most people complaining obviously haven't reached. If you are suddenly doing poorly as a monk healer since the nerfs it's because you are a bad player, not because the class is bad.


On almost every fight other healers were 20-30% behind max, because they have better tools to raid heal than we do.
The only fight I won "by a landslide" is and was tsulong. (150k night phase and 130mil on tsulong, aint got nothin in me other classes) Our throughput is still worlds above everyones, we just dont need it nor can we use it because it's untargeted and most fights need a fraction of our healers real throughput. Even H garalon healing is a joke when you swap at 12 and CD through crushes properly.
And guess what, now that I'm using chi torpedo, I still completely wreck everyone else on Tsulong. But my throughput on a lot of other fights is lower because of a complete lack of strong spot healing/etc in H25m. (With the current random lag the game is giving my entire 25m if I had health bars on it'd be impossible to see anything, so spot healing with healing sphere is a no-go for me.)
It's funny, because I heal with good healers and see a completely different world than most QQ'ers. Don't get me wrong, I'm still competitive, but I'd hazard to say I'm good at monks. I don't feel very useful some fights comparing to what I could do on 470 ilvl alts.
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Is anyone in this thread deep into t14 heroics? Me and our second healer are still able to 2heal all of the MSV heroic fights (10m), however, i will say that there is definitely a strain on the raid post nerf, and utilizing mana is very tedious. I was still able to hold over 100k HPS on 10m garalon for quite some time, up until 20% when we wiped. This being said the holy pally and i have been healing together for several years, so im sure this helps also.

In any sense i feel like the nerf was very fast, and all of a sudden. If you are having a hard time adjusting to the changes it is to be expected. the last 30% increase to most spells caught me way off guard and it is going to take some major getting used to.

I think there may be some kickbacks as it was likely an over shot as far as class balancing. Keep in mind the nerf was needed, MW's were doing alot of healing, and some nerf is granted. Its just going to take everyone bringing their head off their keyboard for a bit before you start slamming it back down again.

As far as progression goes, for our 10m, if they do not toss any kickbacks, ill likely roll resto druid. Just for the sake of running a stronger 2 healing setup.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360
12/06/2012 12:34 PMPosted by Rainbowglow
Everyone complaining is terrible and clueless. Monks were doing almost double the healing of other classes on some heroic 25m fights. It's pretty obvious they needed extreme nerfs along the lines of what was done. Just because monks aren't the top healing class on every single fight now does not mean they are bad. Monks have a very high skill cap which most people complaining obviously haven't reached. If you are suddenly doing poorly as a monk healer since the nerfs it's because you are a bad player, not because the class is bad.

Monks must be really hard for you to manage with your awesome raid progression.

Monks DO NOT have a high skill cap. That is such an absurd concept people have come up with.

Pre 5.1: ReM > Uplift > Jab

5.1: ReM > Uplift > Soothing

post hotfix: ReM > Chi Wave > healing spheres

^^^ that is what MW's do, with some extra sprinkles of slightly more efficient spells dependent on situation. I have been among the top 100 for MW's on several fights and that is all i've had to do. 3 buttons with extra sprinkles.

I have played every single healer in this game up to cata, and have only played monk and shaman in MoP. NOT ONE healing class has ever required skill. You stare at bars, and you learn which heal would waste the least amount of mana. Very rarely do i feel challenged as a healer in this game... Most healers have 2-3 single target heals, the rest are AoE's and smart heals.
Edited by Imgandiloljk on 12/6/2012 4:29 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Monk
17985
12/06/2012 04:28 PMPosted by Imgandiloljk
Monks DO NOT have a high skill cap. That is such an absurd concept people have come up with.


You are absolutely wrong and if your progression is anything to show for it, I'm not surprised that you're wrong.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360
12/06/2012 04:59 PMPosted by Mist
Monks DO NOT have a high skill cap. That is such an absurd concept people have come up with.


You are absolutely wrong and if your progression is anything to show for it, I'm not surprised that you're wrong.

Explain to me what is hard about healing as a monk. Tell me what made you think we are hard to play. I have competed with other top MW's with worse gear and at no point did i go "man this is hard". NOT ONCE. Why is this? we have 2 spells to choose from in every situation:

Tank is dieing?
Soothing + surging (or now we can spam some spheres on their feet)
Chi on env

Raid is dieing?
Can we stack?
yes:
SCK
Chi on chi burst
no:
Can i fistweave?
yes:
Jab
Cii on uplift (because you should have already been spreading ReM)
no:
Soothing + surging
Chi on uplift

Random unpredictable raid damage?
Can i fistweave?
yes:
jab
chi on BoK for buff and chi wave
no:
soothing or CJL (depends on position)
Chi on Chi wave and uplift when at 5 chi

What part of ^^^^ makes you think we are hard to play? the only things i have left out are the sprinkles like expel harm
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90 Blood Elf Monk
7725
You left out healing spheres on random unpredictable raid damage, unless you got other healers to cover you, a privilege not usually available in 10 mans.
Edited by Kungfuwaifu on 12/7/2012 1:32 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Monk
8360
12/07/2012 01:31 AMPosted by Kungfuwaifu
You left out healing spheres on random unpredictable raid damage, unless you got other healers to cover you, a privilege not usually available in 10 mans.

This is true, i was still stuck in the mindset of prehotfix... also it can be hard to heal when the raid has to move a lot or if its 25m when health bars go all wonky
Edited by Imgandiloljk on 12/7/2012 2:51 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
11210
Tank is dieing?
Soothing + surging (or now we can spam some spheres on their feet)
Chi on env

Raid is dieing?
Can we stack?
yes:
SCK
Chi on chi burst
no:
Can i fistweave?
yes:
Jab
Cii on uplift (because you should have already been spreading ReM)
no:
Soothing + surging
Chi on uplift

Random unpredictable raid damage?
Can i fistweave?
yes:
jab
chi on BoK for buff and chi wave
no:
soothing or CJL (depends on position)
Chi on Chi wave and uplift when at 5 chi

What part of ^^^^ makes you think we are hard to play? the only things i have left out are the sprinkles like expel harm


90% of this results in you going oom before half the fight is over. Even thinking about hitting Surging or SCK, and in many situations even Jab, is equivalent to any other healer using their Flash Heal: sometimes required, but you completely sacrifice your mana endurance to use it.

The only truly sustainable healing style now uses Chi Torp and Healing Spheres as the staples.
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