Spirit or Int Flask: Elegon and others

90 Night Elf Druid
5685
So after only a few weeks of progression we are doing nicely with only a small snag at Elegon. We have had him to 1 and 2% on a few attempts so we should get it this raid week. I have a few questions in this thread that I would like answered:

1. At what point do I start prioritizing Int over Spirit? In the final phase it is relatively easy for me to go into the phase with high mana (60-70%) and the predictable damage allows me to get full effectiveness out of my HoT's especially when I'm healing my side during Sparks and Pillars. But during the final phase the healing intensity is so high that I am starting to think that since I am pretty good at mana management and with innervate and my mana pots (I am also an alchemist), that the increase in output will be of more of an advantage in most fights.

2. We are 2 healing Elegon, but up to this point this has been the only fight we have tried 2 healing. What other fights should we two heal? I was thinking most every fight should be two heal-able, except maybe spirit kings for us at this point. And I know we should two heal Spiritbinder with the seemingly endless supply of mana and tight enrage time (but with our awesome dps we have gotten it pretty consistently).

3. Back to Elegon, during the burn phase should we just stack and burn him? It seems like resetting stacks has been what has prevented us from killing him on the 1-2% attempts. Also stacking would make it more effective for either the pally or disc priest that heals with me to get maximum effectiveness of AoE heals.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
All normal modes in MSV are 2 healable and should be done so, with the possible exception of Stone Guard.

Int flasks!!!

Not sure on the Elegon stacking question. I don't think we really stack up for that phase and I know that I personally reset my stacks a time or two during the final phase. Quite honestly between the white floor and the sparkling and the everyone being a practically invisible skeleton thing, at that point in the fight I pretty much lose track of anything but the raid frames. it all just coalesces into a blob of white sparkles. >.> lmao.
Edited by Fluffy on 12/4/2012 10:10 AM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
14615
My raid group had some trouble with elegon, but we got him down this week. We two healed the fight. I think surviving elegon is more about dps than heals. When your dps can take down all their orbs and kite the pillar adds it becomes much easier to heal. At the end of the fight all of our dps were over 100K. Our ranged group reset stacks in phase 3. I honestly didn't notice if the melee group did. Rotating healing cooldowns is key for the last phase. We had our prot and ret paladins use devo aura and then we chained spirit tide totem and tranq. If you have enough healing cooldowns and really good dps you could probably just stack in the middle, but you're only going to have like 15-20 seconds to kill him before the healers get overwhelmed.
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90 Troll Druid
11860
12/04/2012 10:00 AMPosted by Grizzlebeer
1. At what point do I start prioritizing Int over Spirit?


You most likely won't need to. The reason being gems are 1:2 ratio.

Of course there comes or could come a point where regen won't matter so that straight throughput will trump hybrid gems. But that won't happen for most of us. I would judge by HoF later bosses and not MSV.

All fights in MSV are two healing unless on heroics.

As for Elegon - this depends on your stacks and where're at going into the last phase. You should be stacked on the edge anyways and most certainly have one of your major CDs up like tranq or TOL.

EDIT: I see I need to LTR.

You never want to use spirit over int in terms of flask and food.
Edited by Moophious on 12/4/2012 11:52 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
13040
Spirit kings is actually really easy as a two heal. The only real damage phase is Meng if your dps get too crazy and push too hard to break the "MC".

I personally started using int flasks over spirit flasks around 9.5k spirit unbuffed. Regen felt pretty good there and the increased throughput is nice.

Depending on your dps you can either edge stack the range like Moophious stated or you can try the heroic method of just piling under Elegon and burning him without dropping stacks. Proper CD usage will make tacking much easier on your healing.
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90 Orc Shaman
15810
While gems are okay (2:1, non JC gems) for spirit over intel especially when you consider socket bonuses, you should use int over spirit flasks and int over spirit food because the ratios are 1:1.
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90 Gnome Priest
12440
12/04/2012 10:17 AMPosted by Moophious
You never want to use spirit over int in terms of flask and food.

Disc might, but that's because Rapture is OP.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
Final burn phase of elegon should stack in the middle and burn. No need to reset stacks at that point. Just make sure your raid stacks tight for efflo and such.
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
Once you break 470 ilvl and have reasonable trinkets (not the pickled egg)...
You should flask and feast int. Unless you are a disc priest (rapture over doubles spirit's value) or a 25M rshaman (mana tide roughly doubles spirit's value to the raid).
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7675
I'd go with Spirit Flask , the first kill i used spirit flask.
I heal it with a druid, hes using spirit too, although i did try it with int just for more output and less mana use , works perfectly too.
On last phase you dont really need to reset stacks , just stack up (except tanks) and heal through it , CD management!

good luck :)

Edit: Spelling
Edited by Vánilla on 12/4/2012 2:09 PM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
13260
1 -- If you're OOMing during fights, stack more spirit. If you're using up most of your mana, you're about just right. If you have more than half your bar left (not counting the easier encounters) then you could probably go for int over spirit.

2 & 3 -- We've switched to 2-heals for most fights. I'm sure we'll probably go 3 heals for learning bosses till we get it down as needed but truly it was so boring with 3 heals we finally just ran as default 2 heals. It was much more fun. 3 healing many of these fights means there's just not a lot to do once the raid learns what to do. For Elegon, we just stacked and burned him. It is pretty healing intensive but I think if we hadn't we'd have been in your shoes with the 1-2% wipe. Just stacking and mass AoE heals while we burned him worked. If you don't go into it with close to a full mana bar though not sure how likely it'll work for you. I'm 2-healing with a disc priest and between the two of us, we make that final transition with most of our mana back but we burn through it very quickly in this phase.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9070
I really liked this writeup on the Int vs Spirit question.

http://iam.yellingontheinternet.com/2012/10/08/why-more-spirit-is-not-the-answer-to-your-healing-problems/
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
Because they are 1:1 go with the int flask UNLESS you are extremeley lacking in spirit (which you ARE NOT). You'll want to reset stacks in the last phase around 6 - 8 stacks and when doing so all dps should use a personal cooldown to mitigate damage.

Sadly I'm never allowed to heal elegon (grumble) since boomkin actually does okay on that fight, but I would think that you can use ToL + NV to handle the beginning and as people are reseting stacks tranq them back up and simply roll rejuv as much as your mana will allow until the boss falls over.

In the burn phase you should either stack range near the edge so that they can quickly reset stacks and keep the melee stacked near the tank or simple have the whole raid stacked on the back of elegon for aoe heals.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6570
Int and spirit flasks aren't 1 to 1.

Int provides zero mana per second--your play style may benefit from having more mana.
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90 Draenei Paladin
16520
Spiritbinder, Spirit Kings and Elegon were the only MSV fights we learnt with 2 healers. We've dropped Stoneguard back to 2 as well. Feng is staying as 3 since we consistently get buggy !@#$ with Lightning Fists.
12/04/2012 01:07 PMPosted by Gardiff
While gems are okay (2:1, non JC gems) for spirit over intel especially when you consider socket bonuses, you should use int over spirit flasks and int over spirit food because the ratios are 1:1.

This is the logic I follow.
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90 Tauren Druid
0
@OP; With your level of base spirit you should never be using spirit flask. Particularly on Elegon + Will. You need intellect.
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90 Tauren Druid
0
Spirit kings is actually really easy as a two heal. The only real damage phase is Meng if your dps get too crazy and push too hard to break the "MC".


What the heck? I solo heal that !@#$. Theres no damage on this fight. All you need is coordination and only one player WHO DOESNT APPLY DOTS to aoe smart nuke during MC. We use a mage and collapse on the tank whenever mc is comming up. This results in 2-3 seconds MAX of players being MC'd. You literally cannot die to this if you do it right.
The only thing you have to worry about in this fight is players getting tunnel vision. That's literally it.
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90 Gnome Priest
17125
Our healers all use spirit flasks in 25m heroic fights
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90 Pandaren Monk
8140
Prioritize int whenever you are good enough at managing your mana that you don't go oom based on some amount you're used to.

For me, that amount is 7500 spirit and I've been gemming/flasking/food buffing int pretty much since I started raiding heroic content this expansion.

Further, you should flask int almost always. you trade int 1:1 with spirit on flasks but 1:2 on gems. So...your gain is always comparatively larger by gemming spirit/flasking int. Unless ofc, you dont go oom, in which case int is better.
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