40 VP per boss isn't enough

90 Undead Priest
16470
While I appreciate the sentiment of the new change of 40 VP per boss kill this week (instead of the old 25), it's not enough.

40 VP per boss amounts to 640 from raids per week. Clearing all the raid bosses in a tier should cap your VP. Any raider capable of clearing all the bosses every week deserves not to be forced into other content to cap their VP.

I don't want to run LFR.
I don't want to run 5mans (though I do enjoy challenge modes (which if you do the daily are quite rewarding in terms of VP)).
I don't want to do dailys.

I am a raider. I want to raid to progress but thanks to the iLvl upgrade system I am forced to VP cap every week if I want the bonuses it provide -- a system which is more mandatory than any shoulder/head enchant and more time consuming (and never ending).

TLDR; 40 VP isn't enough. Raiders should be able to VP cap from raids.

P.S. Allow 25mans to VP cap from raiding only, and you give a non-game-breaking bonus to them... something to offset the extra time it takes to maintain/run/organize them.
Edited by Poena on 12/4/2012 11:46 AM PST
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90 Human Priest
14595
I think It should be more too, but I understand Blizzard's reasoning.

Blizzard wants you to play the game. Dailies, 5 mans, LFR, Scenarios, whatever.
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90 Human Rogue
10980
I'm fine with the change. You have to do dalies for charms anyways and running an LFR here and there won't kill you. I understand where your coming from, I miss being able to just raid once my toon is caught up but it just doesn't seem like that's the design philosophy anymore.
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90 Undead Priest
14805
I agree with you as usual Poena. I don't want to do 5mans or MSV LFRs or Dailies again. I have all my 5man gear/achievements, I have all my coins to last me for 3 more months, and I don't need enough out of MSV to make me go there. I want to raid on a single ton and that's that. It would make me not mind doing stuff on alts as much, but since I have to put tons of work weekly, not as much anymore but still some, in to my main, I have no desire to play alts or do anything else.
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90 Undead Priest
16470
I think It should be more too, but I understand Blizzard's reasoning.

Blizzard wants you to play the game. Dailies, 5 mans, LFR, Scenarios, whatever.


And organized raiding isn't the game?

All of the above are not what I consider enjoyable parts of the game to repeat EXCEPT when using them to get my characters into raiding. To me WoW is a simple and boring game until you add the need to coordinate with real people. Daily's/Scenario's/5mans/LFR require little to no player interaction and coordination and therefore are dull and boring to repeat.

I'll do the above when I am leveling and gearing a new toon to raid, but why should I be forced to repeat the part of the game I do not enjoy when the part of the game I do enjoy already takes up a HUGE amount of free time.
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90 Undead Priest
16470
12/04/2012 11:53 AMPosted by Ninjablaze
You have to do dalies for charms anyways


I have about ~1000 stockpiled. I'm good for the next ~10 weeks.

12/04/2012 11:53 AMPosted by Ninjablaze
and running an LFR here and there won't kill you


Once I outgear LFR, I don't want to run it any more. It just isn't enjoyable and is too demanding of my spare time. In a way it does kill me. It kills my enjoyment of this game. Every tier of Normal + LFR is EXACTLY LIKE TRIAL OF THE CRUSADER ALL OVER AGAIN. I do not want to have to run the same content twice every week, and Blizzard has said they agree with us, but sadly do not in practice.
Edited by Poena on 12/4/2012 12:10 PM PST
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90 Human Rogue
10980
12/04/2012 12:09 PMPosted by Poena
I have about ~1000 stockpiled. I'm good for the next ~10 weeks.


I guess I started my vacation from dailies earlier than you did, prolly part of why I don't feel as burnt out by doing a little bit outside of raid. For the record like you I'd prefer not to, I'm just happy to see the amount I need to do cut down a bit.

12/04/2012 12:09 PMPosted by Poena
Once I outgear LFR, I don't want to run it any more. It just isn't enjoyable and is too demanding of my spare time. In a way it does kill me. It kills my enjoyment of this game. Every tier of Normal + LFR is EXACTLY LIKE TRIAL OF THE CRUSADER ALL OVER AGAIN. I do not want to have to run the same content twice every week, and Blizzard has said they agree with us, but sadly do not in practice.


I feel you on that but lets face it we both knew they'd never actually let us out of our babysitting duties.
Edited by Ninjablaze on 12/4/2012 12:14 PM PST
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90 Orc Death Knight
8835
OP used double parenthesis and remembered to close both.
mmmmmm
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90 Undead Priest
16470
OP used double parenthesis and remembered to close both.
mmmmmm


Fragmented and unorganized thought process while posting quickly for-the-win!
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90 Worgen Warlock
HiJ
9275
40 VP/boss was less than I expected, but it seems fine. When we all run out of lesser charms, we'll get up to 225 of the remaining 360 valor just by getting charms.
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90 Human Death Knight
12455
I am a raider . . . raiders should be able to VP cap from raids.

I can understand that you'd *want* this, but I don't know if there is any logical reason you *should* be able to do this.

Valor seems to, among other purposes, be designed to encourage players to diversify their play time. Why would Blizzard be interested in changing that as applied to self-described "raiders who profess to having no interest in any other aspect of the game whatsoever?"
Edited by Waste on 12/4/2012 12:48 PM PST
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We haven't been able to cap from just raids in some time. I'll give you that previously there was less of a sink for them, but having a new sink does not affect raid difficuty in any way. Blizz just tossed a new carrot in front of your face and you are biting.

That said, would 50 per have been so bad? 200 a week is (and has been) pretty simple to cover.
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90 Worgen Warlock
HiJ
9275
Valor as "The high end PVE currency that you can get for doing any kind of PVE content whatsoever, but which you cannot cap by doing exclusively high end PVE content" is a fairly new idea. If we made conquest "The high end PVP currency that you cannot cap by doing exclusively high end PVP content," I'm sure we would hear similar complaints.
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90 Troll Druid
11615
I'm just happy they raised it somewhat.
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90 Worgen Warlock
HiJ
9275
Me too, Kuruption.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
12/04/2012 12:09 PMPosted by Poena
Every tier of Normal + LFR is EXACTLY LIKE TRIAL OF THE CRUSADER ALL OVER AGAIN. I do not want to have to run the same content twice every week, and Blizzard has said they agree with us, but sadly do not in practice.


This is my major complaint with the LFR system as well. 1 step forward, 2 steps back.
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90 Human Priest
18180
Part of the problem is that a raid team isn't exactly 10 or 25 people. If you're only in for 80-90% of the bosses, suddenly you're down to 480-560 valor a week from a guild that's clearing 16/16.

If I do dailies, I can get something like 2 valor a minute (maybe a little more, definitely more for Tillers). So that's 500 minutes of playtime to cap Valor, or 8.33 hours. Most raiding guilds spend 10+ hours a week on raiding alone and yet they don't cap. My guild only raids two nights but we spend 8-9 hours a week raiding, and we only get something like 50% of the valor cap for doing the hardest PvE content possible?

Something seems off.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10970
Even in DS, you would still be 200 VP away from cap, which is closer to the actual VP you are from cap for what is "required" of a progression raider. If you are clearing 16 bosses a week and doing 45 dailies a week for charms, that comes out to 865 VP, which is only 135 VP short of cap. That is doable in two heroics, which is what you had to do in DS to cap if you did not do LFR.
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90 Human Priest
18180
If you are clearing 16 bosses a week and doing 45 dailies a week for charms, that comes out to 865 VP, which is only 135 VP short of cap. That is doable in two heroics, which is what you had to do in DS to cap if you did not do LFR.


So if we ignore the underlined/bolded part, you're claiming you have to do two heroics. Of course, you got 150 valor from heroics in DS.

This is also assuming you're in for every raid boss.
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In DS/FL it didn't matter if you capped or not for the week most of the time the tier was out since you probably were only going to buy a couple slots of gear with VP, and once you were done all VP did was let you sell BoEs. Now with the endless VP sink of item upgrades, raiders will feel forced to cap on VP every single week for the entirety of the expansion. Given the choice I'd rather Blizzard have never implemented the item upgrade system in the first place, but now that they have, they should significantly increase the valor dropped from raid bosses even more.
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