40 VP per boss isn't enough

90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
Has raiding the current tier alone and nothing else EVER valor capped you?

I remember still having to do heroics in firelands/DS. Wasn't clearing t11 so I don't recall that.
Edited by Ðemolition on 12/5/2012 12:31 AM PST
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
17665
Now if you would like to maintain an offspec you'll need either LFR drops, or leftovers in raid. If you guild is prioritizing Blood Spirits over Offspec, you'd have to wait until the tier is obsolete for the OS gear.

Many guilds expect raiders to maintain 2 sets of gear, the iLvl upgrade system can really punish that. (Have to resort to crafted gear instead of VP gear to fill in gaps.)


It really depends on your role.

me and a feral are trading off the 3rd tank spot, but I get all the extra plate gear, and it's made a decent offset (well, actually beats my MS), but the upgrade system just makes it even more my offset.

In a perfect world, Blizzard wouldn't design 1, 2 and 3 tank fights, but they have, so it's required (at least for 25 man Stoneguards, and Sha specifically, but I tank a couple other fights to ease mechanics) so that we have to maintain that, not to mention there's a swing of 3-6 healers depending on encounter, which means we need those players to maintain a valid offset (With the spirit changes, trying to heal with ~5200 spirit isn't ideal).

Combine everything, and it just means that several encounters will have us playing while missing a part of our strength, we still have yet to see if this system is maintained, this tier wasnt built around it, and the 8 ilevels is just a free "partial" nerf until they hand on dial tier 14 to hell, but will we be seeing future raids tuned around it? they said they don't tune around LFR, but we've seen the most stringent gear checks in a long time this tier, you gotta wonder, if fights like Gara'jal heroic are going to be the norm, where you'll purely need gear to kill it, is that gear considered normal, or does it factor LFR and Valor upgrade levels.

My other issue, is that it makes a tough choice in if you upgrade or replace, this is actually quite a unique choice in that sense.
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
17665
Has raiding the current tier alone and nothing else EVER valor capped you? I remember still having to do heroics in firelands/DS. Wasn't clearing t11 so I don't recall that.


Tier 11 I think capped you, but I don't remember all too well, the biggest difference, you need a minimum of over 15k valor per tier now, 15 weeks of required valor capping at minimum to raid now.

During DS/Firelands, I ground valor the first few weeks, but stopped NEEDing to after that, as it stands now, I will be grinding valor until march-april at least, waiting for this tier to finish out.
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90 Draenei Paladin
15075
The only dailies i do now (because i'm exalted with the rest of them), is the new 5.1 ones. and to be honest even then i don't pay to much attention (as you can tell since i can't even remember their names at the moment)

That being said my guild raids on monday (which blows) because if i want to valor cap for the week and i'm short monday it sucks
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
12/05/2012 01:45 AMPosted by Barfus
That being said my guild raids on monday (which blows) because if i want to valor cap for the week and i'm short monday it sucks


???

I see you've cleared all 16 bosses.

So you know exactly how much valor you're getting.

Even if you didn't, you're a tank, you can valor cap in 2-3 hours tops chaining heroics (from scratch, let alone raiding / daily valor from the week)
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
Has raiding the current tier alone and nothing else EVER valor capped you?

I remember still having to do heroics in firelands/DS. Wasn't clearing t11 so I don't recall that.


Raiding 25-man during T11/T12 was sufficient. Pretty sure T13 capped you as well if you killed every DS boss because I sure as hell wasn't doing Twilights on this.

Even if you didn't, you're a tank, you can valor cap in 2-3 hours tops chaining heroics (from scratch, let alone raiding / daily valor from the week)


There is no way that even as a tank, you're doing 24 Heroics in 3 hours.

(1000-80) => 920/40 = 23
Edited by Slashlove on 12/5/2012 2:34 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
16755
Has raiding the current tier alone and nothing else EVER valor capped you?

I remember still having to do heroics in firelands/DS. Wasn't clearing t11 so I don't recall that.


Pretty sure I've always been VP capped just from raiding. I'm not 100% sure about Firelands, but definitely during DS. Even if that had never been the case, VP wasn't necessary for raiders then anyway. It was to fill in random missing pieces, to get introductory gear for alts, or a way to make gold by selling BoEs. Now it is a required part of getting BiS gear. Note that I use the word required because there is absolutely no other way to get the best gear in the game now other than by VP capping each week. I could get a 516 piece off elite protectors and still need 1500 VP to bring it up to its potential 524 ilvl.

If VP capping is going to be required to get BiS gear, you should be able to cap VP from doing the hardest PvE content in the game. If, on the other hand, VP was an optional part of the game designed for people who do a little bit of everything or to get you into raiding in the first place or whatever, then it's totally fine that raids don't cap you. If I want to focus on challenging PvE content and nothing else I should be able to do so, and the stuff outside of raiding should be, at most, a fun and/or appealing bonus. The same goes for people who only want to PvP, or people who only want to pet battle, or whatever. You should be rewarded for branching out in the world without having to do it. Coins are a functional example of this. If you get coins each week, you can get extra gear, but once you're done with progression you can stop farming coins without penalty. Even if you never get coins, all they do is give an extra chance at loot, you don't have to have them. That isn't true of VP since you need VP to get the best gear for raiding, so VP should be cappable from raiding, simple as that.
Edited by Gondlem on 12/5/2012 3:11 AM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
12455
To Blizzard:
I have a job. I am married. I have friends.

I thought this was the cry of the casuals! To see a "heroic raider" play that card? What has the world come to?

Nothing has shaken my world this severly since Asane's annual pass ran out, and he quit the game.
Edited by Waste on 12/5/2012 7:48 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
11285
12/05/2012 07:47 AMPosted by Waste
since Asane's annual pass ran out, and he quit the game.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGAu_DeKckI
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12/05/2012 12:43 AMPosted by Postonforums
15 weeks of required valor capping at minimum to raid now.


I wasn't aware that you needed to cap your valor to enter raid zones now.
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90 Worgen Druid
17805
I have about ~1000 stockpiled. I'm good for the next ~10 weeks.


I guess I started my vacation from dailies earlier than you did, prolly part of why I don't feel as burnt out by doing a little bit outside of raid. For the record like you I'd prefer not to, I'm just happy to see the amount I need to do cut down a bit.

I do just enough dailies on a weekly basis to get my charms and I feel burnt out from them.
Edited by Dysheki on 12/5/2012 8:25 AM PST
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I dont necessarily think you should vp cap with a full clear, but you should not have to get an additional 400 or so vp. It should finish up with maybe 1-200 vp left to get. So you can do some dailies, a lfd, or an lfr. I think 50 would be a much more reasonable number with 16 bosses. That should net you 800 vp which is close enough to cap for me. I would have no problem with running a heroic, raid finder, scenarios, or dare I say dailies to make up the small difference.
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90 Undead Priest
16470
Has raiding the current tier alone and nothing else EVER valor capped you?

I remember still having to do heroics in firelands/DS. Wasn't clearing t11 so I don't recall that.


Read this thread! I posted a history of Emblem/Points :P

25mans have always Capped until DS (at which point it really didn't matter because tier was no longer acquired from the vendors)
Edited by Poena on 12/5/2012 8:34 AM PST
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90 Undead Priest
16470
To Blizzard:
I have a job. I am married. I have friends.

I thought this was the cry of the casuals! To see a "heroic raider" play that card? What has the world come to?

Nothing has shaken my world this severly since Asane's annual pass ran out, and he quit the game.


Lol. Well we only raid 25mans 7.5 hours a week and have since BC... and have been able to be quasi-successful (we must have been right, we're the last of two 25mans on the server). Sometimes we raid 10mans bringing a couple of our raiders raid week up to 10 hours. I don't expect to be the best of the best given the amount of time we play, or even be competitive, but I do want to kill things before Blizz swings their nerf bat.

Sadly in every expansion prior to this, you could raid and gain everything you needed to be successful, from gold to buy everything a raider needs to all the gear that matters... all inside a raid. Now raids don't drop anything useful or unique that you can sell (lol patterns), and a huge amount of gear or upgrades now come from outside organized raids.
Edited by Poena on 12/5/2012 8:35 AM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
12455
12/05/2012 08:26 AMPosted by Poena
I posted a history of Emblem/Points :P

The problem is that it is only that - a history. The design and purpose of Valor points have clearly been radically changed in MoP. So "what they were in BC" isn't super-useful.

I do like your idea of letting 25-man raids hit the valor cap through raiding only as a way to incentivize them. I also do agree that introducing the item upgrade feature makes capping far more important for the life of the expansion. I don't know that I would say that this means bosses should give more valor, but I do think Blizzard needs to play with the system more.

Another irony of Valor:

With one exception, you can (with a little white-knuckle grinding), Valor cap by doing any one single activity obsessively and ignoring all others. In other words, you *could* Valor cap by doing nothing but dailies. Or nothing but scenarios. Or nothing but 5-mans. Or nothing but LFR.

The one exception to this rule? Actual raiding.

That seems weird. The ONE activity that you can't valor cap by focusing on is raiding.
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90 Undead Priest
16470
Posted by Poena
I posted a history of Emblem/Points :P

The problem is that it is only that - a history. The design and purpose of Valor points have clearly been radically changed in MoP. So "what they were in BC" isn't super-useful.


Yes I understand that... and this is what this thread is about. However several people did ask if you could Valor cap just from raiding previously. The answer is if you were a 25man, you could.
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90 Human Death Knight
12455
Another reaons why I like your idea of having a radically larger Valor reward for 25-man bosses (as opposed to all formats).

I'm usually on the "patient fanboi" side of the spectrum, but the lack of action on incentivizing 25-man raids is getting to be a real bummer. Make 25-man bosses give 75 Valor each and then even groups doing partial clears can cap through "raiding only."

That would seem a nice incentive for 25s without 'taking' anything from anyone else.
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90 Undead Priest
16470
Another reaons why I like your idea of having a radically larger Valor reward for 25-man bosses (as opposed to all formats).

I'm usually on the "patient fanboi" side of the spectrum, but the lack of action on incentivizing 25-man raids is getting to be a real bummer. Make 25-man bosses give 75 Valor each and then even groups doing partial clears can cap through "raiding only."

That would seem a nice incentive for 25s without 'taking' anything from anyone else.


Agreed.
Blizz said they want to do it... Given the new iLvl upgrade system, this seems like an obvious choice of incentives and one many players would value highly.
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90 Human Rogue
10980
I'm usually on the "patient fanboi" side of the spectrum, but the lack of action on incentivizing 25-man raids is getting to be a real bummer. Make 25-man bosses give 75 Valor each and then even groups doing partial clears can cap through "raiding only."


Throw in enough lesser charms to get elder charms and I think we may have just saved the format without killing 10 man.
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